Methodist leader equates U.S. flag to swastika (Mark Toolie on the job)

WND ^ | 5-18-2007 | Mark D. Tooley

[bmwcyle]

A leader in the United Methodist Church has equated the U.S. flag to the Nazi swastika, drawing the criticism of a watchdog organization that says it is an example of the church's "contemptuous" attitude towards the nation and its heritage.

The comments came from Rev. Clayton Childers, of the Washington-based United Methodist Board of Church and Society, who said, "The presence of a national flag in worship can imply endorsement of national policies which often run counter to the teachings of Jesus Christ and our Christian faith. … One need only recall the way the swastika flag was displayed prominently in German churches during the Nazi era."

Mark Tooley

He was discussing on the organization's website the propriety of having Old Glory in Christian churches, but his condemnation drew the ire of Mark Tooley, the executive director of UMAction, which monitors the eight-million member church and its activities.

"The United Methodist Church, under its liberal leadership, is losing over 50,000 members a year, and this church lobby official is oddly worried about getting American flags out of our churches," Tooley said.

[Ditto]

Funny. The first time I ever saw the United Methodist logo, I thought it was some KKK insignia.

[xzins]

When the light is gone, then we will leave. We’ll have to...the Lord will remove the unnecessary candlestick. Why waste a perfectly good candlestick on a place with no light?

[bmwcyle]

I'm still in the back singing base.

[Zionist Conspirator]

Note that no liberal ever criticizes flag-waving patriotism by the "oppressed." In fact, they do all in their power to stuff them to the gills with pride in their heritage, to the point of jingoism or even national socialism.

More "ethnic Calvinism" at work.

[Little Ray]

IF my church removes the US flag from the dais, I’m leaving the church, AFTER I have my say on the issue.

[Lurking in Kansas]

The membership statistics of the United Methodist Church (UMC), like Mainline Protestantism in general, show the The denomination is in serious decline. In a 50-year period ending in the mid-90s, the UMC lost 48 percent of its members. A more recent study showed the denomination lost 7 percent of its members from 1990 to 2001. Only 3.5 million of the 8.5 million UMC members are present on an average Sunday morning, according to George Mitrovich in "Good News." Mitrovich reported that youth membership is less than 500,000, while the average UMC member is nearing 60 years of age.

~found online

[xzins]

If my church removes the (US) flag...

That would depend for me.

If they do it in order to disrespect America, then I'm out of there.

If it is to make a correct theological point that our allegiance to God is our greatest allegiance, then I'm OK with it.

It is the same question as: "Which flag deserves the position on the right IF that is the position of greatest respect?"

Or

Who comes first in your life....God or Nation?

[bmwcyle]

God but we fly many flags of all the countries we have missions.

[xzins]

Yes, but I’m a retired Army officer. I know that the position of honor is on the right. Does our flag go to the right of the flag of Uganda or does Uganda get the position of honor?

Or the Christian flag?

[bmwcyle]

Christian flag

[xzins]

We think alike. :>)

[iceskater]

Just to show how much of a non-issue this is to ‘regular’ folks....
Many years ago, in the UMC where I spent my teenage years, someone decided that the US flag was looking kind of tired. They counted the stars - there were 48. So, it was definitely time to replace that flag. It was kind of funny that no one noticed for, I don’t know, 30 years or more....

[xzins]

I think that the flag is there for reasons of respect. I have no problem with that.

In the early 1980’s, I remember going through the books at a church that I served in n. Ohio before I went active duty with the Army. We were checking on old members.

Found one that had died in 1918 and was still on the books.

Wonder if she voted democrat all those years......:>)

[Terabitten]

Hey xzins, nice to see you on a non-Reformed thread LOL.

Personally, I think the “Christian Flag” is kinda silly. The whole thing was made up in 1897 or thereabouts in Coney Island by a preacher whose guest speaker didn’t show up.

The position of honor in a church isn’t on the right or left - it’s dead front & center. That’s where you usually find a cross or crucifix. AFAIC, we could ditch the “Christian flag” entirely from our places of worship and my worship wouldn’t be any affected. Take the cross away, though......

[xzins]

I would argue with nothing that you said.

If there is some agreed upon position of honor, then in the church the highest honor belongs to......could it be GOD?

:>)

While I am extremely patriotic, a retiree of 20+ years of military service, and a real die-hard conservative, I believe that nothing gets placed above God.

Not Old Glory.
Not Uncle Sam.
Not The Star Spangled Banner.
Not The Pledge of Allegiance.
etc.

[iceskater]

Wonder if she voted democrat all those years......:>)

LOL...probably so.

[bmwcyle]

bttt

[TexanToTheCore]

500,000 Youth?

My church has 9500 youth. Like going to church in Munchkin land.

[bmwcyle]

bttt

[kevinw]

I agree with what you said, except for the “ethnic Calvinism” part. John Calvin was not a liberal, as we know liberals today. He was what we would call a conservative today. And by the way, he was patriotic. He believed in free enterprise and representative government, which our country was founded on. It might interest you to know that his followers, the Presbyterians, played a major role in the American Revolution and the founding of America.