Posted on 05/16/2007 6:54:51 AM PDT by SirLinksalot
There you go again. As I said, you simply reject ID by fiat because you don’t like its religious implications.
And what does “study of the designer” have to do with it? Science is the study of the design, not the study of the Designer.
The distinction here is very simple. Suppose someone sends you some software, and you have no clue who wrote it. Would you claim that it was not intelligently designed because you know nothing about the designer? I hope not. But that is the logical equivalent of your nonsensical claim.
I suppose one could consider the fact that oxygen will bind with hydrogen and not helium shows intelligence on the part of oxygen.
No, but I would believe that whoever ran the that software on the their computer whould lack intelligence. In a similar manner I would attribute to any scientist a similar lack of intelligence if she decided that something was so complex that only God could have put it together and thus stopped searching for the truth.
“I would attribute to any scientist a similar lack of intelligence if she decided that something was so complex that only God could have put it together and thus stopped searching for the truth.”
“This most elegant system of the sun, planets, and comets could not have arisen without the design and dominion of an intelligent and powerful being.” —Sir Isaac Newton, The Principia
I guess the greatest scientist who ever lived “stopped searching for the truth,” eh.
“The Darwinian theory has become an all-purpose obstacle to thought rather than an enabler of scientific advance.” —Robert B. Laughlin, Nobel-laureate physicist
Congratulations, you got it exactly backwards!
Here’s more insight from Prof. Laughlin:
Much of present-day biological knowledge is ideological. A key symptom of ideological thinking is the explanation that has no implications and cannot be tested. I call such logical dead ends antitheories because they have exactly the opposite effect of real theories: they stop thinking rather than stimulate it. Evolution by natural selection, for instance, which Charles Darwin originally conceived as a great theory, has lately come to function more as an antitheory, called upon to cover up embarrassing experimental shortcomings and legitimize findings that are at best questionable and at worst not even wrong. Your protein defies the laws of mass action? Evolution did it! Your complicated mess of chemical reactions turns into a chicken? Evolution! The human brain works on logical principles no computer can emulate? Evolution is the cause! —Robert B. Laughlin, Nobel-laureate physicist
Newton has passed on. He now knows the truth that you and I can only speculate about right now. However, since his death other great scientists have carried the torch of learning to newer and greater heights. If Dr. Richard Feynman, one of those great scientists, had read your postings he would repeat his famous quote, "Surely you jest."
If Dr. Richard Feynman, one of those great scientists, had read your postings he would repeat his famous quote, “Surely you jest.”
I quoted Isaac Newton, the greatest scientist ever, and Robert B. Laughlin, a Nobel-laureate physicist. Which one is jesting?
Surely you can cover for your lack of an argument better than that.
As far a Newton goes, one can only speculate about how he would revise his quote if he lived today. I suspect he would be a tad less dogmatic about creation.
Oh, so Newton would bow to political correctness, eh? How nice of you to speak for him.
For the record, Newton studied the Bible daily and “religiously.”
As for the Laughlin quote being “out of context,” that’s a canard. Whenever evolutionists don’t like a particular quote from a respectable person, it is “out of context.”
I did not claim that Laughlin advocates ID. I actually don’t know where he stands on the matter. But his quote stands perfectly well on its own, whether you like it or not.
After our discussion yesterday, I sent Dr.Laughlin and email. I asked him directly how he felt about using his quote for this purpose. This is a direct quote from his response:
"No, I don't like having my words used for ideological purposes. Unfortunately, there isn't much I can do about it. The deeper subject matter of UNIVERSE is belief systems and how they color perceptions even when they shouldn't. You have to expect that people will misread a perfectly clear statement that beliefs corrupt perceptions as supporting their own particular beliefs. In other words, you hold a mirror up to show how ugly the queen is and she sees only how beautiful she is! "
Truth in ID FYI ping. Start at post #58.
“After our discussion yesterday, I sent Dr.Laughlin and email. I asked him directly how he felt about using his quote for this purpose. This is a direct quote from his response:”
I’d like to know what you told him before he replied. If you told him that I was using his quote for “ideological purposes,” then you misrepresented me. In fact, I used his quote to discredit the “ideological purposes” of evolutionists. If you told him that I used it to indicate that he advocates ID, then you lied. I specifically said otherwise in plain English.
I don’t have any special reverence for Laughlin other than to acknowledge that he won a Nobel Prize. I read his book and found it interesting but very confusing in many places. If he “denies” ID in any way, I really don’t care. But if he is going to deny what he said in plain English about the Darwinian Theory, then he should make it clear that he is retracting his statement. If not, then he should shut up.
This reminds me of the time when some Republicans quoted MLK on the ideal of colorblindness, only to be scolded by his wife. Apparently only bona fide liberals or leftists are allowed to quote MLK — even though we have a national holiday named after him.
Have no fear. you were not mentioned. I referred Dr Laughlin to the essay written by the the IDer from whom you got the quote:
But if he is going to deny what he said in plain English about the Darwinian Theory, then he should make it clear that he is retracting his statement.
He has nothing to retract. He said what he said and meant it within the context of his scientific philosophy - which has nothing to do with ID.
If not, then he should shut up.
If you think he should shut up then maybe you should consider removing his quote from your Great Quotes web page on your web site.
I think Laughlin’s quote is worth repeating:
“Much of present-day biological knowledge is ideological. A key symptom of ideological thinking is the explanation that has no implications and cannot be tested. I call such logical dead ends antitheories because they have exactly the opposite effect of real theories: they stop thinking rather than stimulate it. Evolution by natural selection, for instance, which Charles Darwin originally conceived as a great theory, has lately come to function more as an antitheory, called upon to cover up embarrassing experimental shortcomings and legitimize findings that are at best questionable and at worst not even wrong. Your protein defies the laws of mass action? Evolution did it! Your complicated mess of chemical reactions turns into a chicken? Evolution! The human brain works on logical principles no computer can emulate? Evolution is the cause!” —Robert B. Laughlin, Nobel-laureate physicist
Why don’t you email him again and ask him which part of this quote he would like to retract or revise.
I said nothing about his quote except that it contradicts what you are claiming about evolution, which it clearly does. For you or him to claim that I am using his quote for “ideological purposes” simply by quoting him is ridiculous.
Newton saw not just “evidence,” but *proof* if ID in the mechanics of the solar system. The simplest living cell is arguably far more complex than the equations of motion of the solar system, and that complexity was completely unknown in Newton’s time, so I have no reason whatsoever to believe that Newton would change his views on ID. I just wish more scientists these days would have the guts acknowledge that the anti-ID emporer has no clothes.
If I recall correctly, that quote came from his book. I suggest you re-read it a few times, then tell me what part of it you disagree with.
I’ll keep it on my website until Laughlin personally tells me that he retracts it.
Guess again.
"You have to expect that people will misread a perfectly clear statement that beliefs corrupt perceptions as supporting their own particular beliefs." - Dr. Laughlin
I borrowed his book A Different Universe from a library about a year ago (in fact, I needed an inter-library loan). I posted the quote on my website months after I had returned the book, and I can’t remember specifically where I got it from, but I know he said something like that in the book. If you have the book handy, why don’t you tell us exactly what he wrote. Just look up “evolution” in the index.
I agree that his statement was perfectly clear, but I think *you* are the one who is “misreading” it. Actually, I get the impression that you are simply *ignoring* it because it doesn’t fit well with your outlook and your ideological agenda. Please tell me what part of it I am misreading!
Perhaps you are referring to this part:
Evolution by natural selection, for instance, which Charles Darwin originally conceived as a great theory, has lately come to function more as an antitheory, called upon to cover up embarrassing experimental shortcomings and legitimize findings that are at best questionable and at worst not even wrong.
Not even wrong? What do you suppose that means?
Oh, one more thing. You are quoting his response to someone else’s use of his quote as if it applies to me. Your “logic” escapes me.
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