Posted on 05/13/2007 4:22:19 AM PDT by Kaslin
I’m sorry I took so long to get back to you. Sundays are usually pretty full around here.
>>>>>>>>>>>>If you have proof, then;
A) Please provide it<<<<<<<<<
No problem; empirical history good enough for you? How about the historical reality of the life, death, and resurrection of Jesus Chist. Since the Christian Bible can be termed a “biased source” from a historical standpoint, let’s take a look outside the Bible for empirical evidence:
http://www.rationalchristianity.net/jesus_extrabib.html
Please note that the earlier sources can be described as biased in the opposite direction from supporting Christ and his claims, if not downright hostile.
The link I provided left out a VERY hostile coroboration, from the writers of the Talmud:
http://www.rationalchristianity.net/jesus_extrabib.html
>>>>>>>B) ...since you are gifted with empirical evidence and faith is unnecessary<<<<<<<<<
Well, I would not term faith “unnecessary”. But what is necessary is intellectuaul integrity. If you accept the proposition that Julius Caesar was assassinated in the Roman Senate on March 15, 44 BCE, you base your acceptance of that event as historical reality on a grand total of 4 ancient descriptions:
documented by Nicolaus of Damascus
According to Eutropius
Suetonius reports his last words
Plutarch reports that Caesar said nothing
The interesting part of these accounts is that we have discrepancies between two of the Roman Historians...Could it be that the popularly accepted accounts are some sort of weird myth or fairy tale? I mean those discrepancies really make me wonder...
Further exploration can be found here, including the context of the excerpts:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julius_Caesar
Now, what I mean by intellectual integrity is that one event is taught as history in classrooms. The other event is held up as a fairy tale—something that should be left behind with embarrassment and only dicussed with head shaking incredulity as a relic from humanity’s ignorant infancy.
>>>>>>>>I assume you have no faith<<<<<<<<
I got past faith about 10 years ago, FRiend. I KNOW where I’m going. And I know what God has done for me in the “here and now real world”. Of course that is completely subjective knowledge on my part.
Now, my original response to your response came from a variety of sources — mainly, personal experiences. There are certain people I have talked with on this forum over the years that have identified themselves as atheists. And they parallel those that I have met in real life. The ones that I know are hard core atheists and secure in that faith, I never see posting on religious threads.
The true, secure atheist ignores religion as a waste of time. Or can joke around with some one about their spiritual practices/beliefs. The atheists that go out of their way defend their atheism, or even better, negatively psychanalyze some one that makes a profession of faith are the ones that are looking to bolster their beleif in nothing. Or to somehow rationalize that they are better than those mired in superstitution and reinforce the persuasion that they should remain enlightened. The atheists that I talk to that will give me the time of day in terms of religion are either weak in their faith, or...
Want to know what it is like to feel some hope. Especially in the quiet hours of the middle of the night, when sleep is elusive and the mind refuses to stop dwelling on death. That terrible end of all things that takes place when the last breath exits the body.
I know I did.
Now, digest this, then go ahead and reply with a little (or big) moving of the goalposts — you know you want to! Or, pick up a copy of this:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/search-handle-url/index=blended&field-keywords=case%20for%20christ%20strobel&results-process=default&dispatch=search/ref=pd_sl_aw_tops-1_blended_25830000_1&results-process=default
Just be warned — an atheist even discussing religion is already on a slippery slope.
According to the apostle, God's revealed Himself not just to Christians and to Jews, but to every one everywhere (see Romans 1:18-21).
And Jews failed to acknowledge Him, right? Otherwise, they wouldn't have remained Jews!
Wouldn't the headline be more accurate if it read:
"Atheists, Jews, Hindus, Agnostics, Mohammedans, and Buddhists Better Pray to God They're Right"
He feels this way because he does not want to face consequences. It is part of his personality, in that he often ends up in financial difficulties, or other jams, because he just can't accept making decisions today based on potential consequences in the future.
I really believe he saw atheism as a ticket out of all the stuff he learned growing up as a Catholic. Kind of like winning the lottery. All of his problems are solved.
Like the article says, he better hope he is right. To actively want, desire, wish God does not exist just so you can sleep at night is quite different from those who choose not to believe because they can't prove God exists.
Which brings me to my second point. I have never bought the whole bit about having to "prove" God exists, when it is called "faith", not "proof".
Regardless, if the burden is proof, it seems these atheists must be able to prove that life can spring forth from inanimate non-living material (i.e., the primordial sludge, or my term, "dirt"). These atheists want to believe in something, but if they can't believe in God because there is no proof, then they cannot believe life came into existence from dirt, without proof.
So what does the atheist believe? They do not believe in mystical creation by a superior entity, as there is no proof. But they cannot believe dirt brought forth life. It cannot be recreated in a lab.
Oh, but they point to an experiment where zapping a methane gas mixture with electricity created amino acids. Amino acids! The building blocks of proteins. So, where are the proteins. Keep, zapping, still no proteins, much less an amoeba or two.
In fact, despite ten-thousand years of human effort, creating life has been impossible, and sustaining life has been difficult.
Surprisingly, however many atheists do believe statistically, life could accidentally happen. This is sort of an idea that something that is for all we know, impossible, if you relax that impossibility just a smidgen, you can then use statistics to show it can happen somewhere with a large enough sample size. And the universe is infinite. Think of a sigma notation with then end being infinity. No matter how small the probability, going to infinity means you will get something, not matter how rare.
However, since there is no proof, this still requires something the atheists refuse to admit:
FAITH
My favorite popular depiction of this was the end of the movie "Contact". Jodie Foster's atheist character is being grilled by Congress on what she encountered while passing through the wormhole. Ultimately, she had no proof, but deeply believed it be true. She tried to convince Congress to believe her based on her belief, her faith that she did encounter an alien intelligence.
I for one have never seen a conflict between science and religion, especially when it comes to cosmology. Certainly Georges Lemaitre didn't.
a tad irreverent but o so true.
Josh McDowell was great! Wish we had more like him.
It’s resolved in MY mind, thank God...
Everything you point to can be explained with another explanation equally or more plausible. Even without another, more plausible, explanation, the G-d hypothesis is a very assailable explanation. Before nuclear fusion was understood the only explanation for the suns heat was simple combustion. Not having a better explanation at the time did not make combustion true or even likely.
Have faith if you want it but recognize that humans have no proof (as distinct from evidence such as written records of other people's opinions)of the existence of G-d. None.
Look at the face of the atheist who is trying to get the name of God off everything American? He is an uptight, miserable and angry man. I almost feel sorry for him. He must be very unhappy.
I rather doubt that Christians make up 83.8% of the prison population. They may have been brought up in a protestant or other denominational church nominally but they are NOT true Christians. Now,I know that there ARE Christians in prisons. I’ve been part of a prison ministry from time to time, but no way are 83.8% of any prison Christian! Maybe Muslim, at this point in time, but not Christian.
You’re right. NONE of it is encouraged. Sin is sin. But God does show in the Bible that in spite of these sins and these people who committed them, He was forgiving and gave them the chance to repent and change, just like He does each one of us. He loved them and he worked through many of them to accomplish HIS purposes (Rahab, the harlot for one).
About slavery, God didn’t come into the world to change what the world was doing. He came to change hearts. He knew slavery would go on but He wanted to help those in slavery to be obedient and Christlike (even if Christ wasn’t born yet...) and to set an example. I’m not putting this as succinctly as I’d like but I’m full of sugar tonight and whew...flyin’ high (smile).
The difference between nominal christians/church goers and born again believers is like night and day (or SHOULD be). People count Christians if they nominally go to church or were born into a church going family, not if they believe in Christ as their Lord and Saviour and attempt to live for Him.
God, with a BIG G: creator God. The Triune God.
Europeans are turning away from God. Hence their moral values are fast disappearing. Sad.
Who SAYS those people are all Christians? Some may nominally go to church, but they may not be born-again believers who follow Christ and serve Him. I wouldn’t expect Ginsburg to be Christian, for example.
Even developmentally challenged children, such as Downs children, have a sense of God. It’s inborn. I personally know three adult Downs folk and they LOVE God and their lives and actions reflect it. It’s beautiful to see.
Except that God created the animals and gave them their instincts.
You make me very sad. I’m sorry you feel this way about God. Yes, He loves you with an everlasting love, but He made a way through His Son, Jesus Christ, for you to be reconciled to Him and to have eternal life with Him. If you reject His Son, eternity will be spent not with God but with the enemy of your soul, who has deceived you. I’m really concerned for you, for eternity and for the present.
they may accept religion but not necessarily Christianity. Many of our black brothers become Muslims. My son works in a prison so I do have some knowledge of what goes on there. There are good prison ministries for sure, but to say that the majority accept the Lord just isn’t true. If they did, they wouldn’t keep going back in.
He must be the first man in the entire history of humanity to prove the existence of God. /s
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