Posted on 05/10/2007 7:18:51 AM PDT by Diana in Wisconsin
But liars are known to manipulate numbers........
I have acknowleged there are problems with public schools, I would be wearing blinders to not, however, your overly broad generalization refuses to acknowlege there are far more exceptions to the rule than are noticed.
When God, boy scouts and traditional values are the enemy, and hedonism is just another lifetstyle choice, this is not an environment that will produce rational thinking adults, it is impossible.
They are not the enemy where I live. Prayer requests are a normal part of morning announcements, boy scouts not only recruit at the schools but hold meetings in several of them, and personal responsibility, which I consider a traditional value, is expected of everyone.
As parents the education of our children is OUR responsibility, and it is OUR responsibility to see to it that our daughter is educated in the best possible manner available to us. Her education does not start and stop at the school doors, itis an ongoning 24/7 thing. That we CHOSE a public school system for part of that process does not make us foolish or bad parents, it is the decision we made. If at some point we find the decision to have been incorrect, changes can and will be made.
...and some of these schools charge outrageous amounts to educate the learning disabled, emotionally disturbed, mentally retarded, and/or autistic and if there is any way possible for the parents to send the bill to the school districts, they do so.
There was an article posted by Amelia a few weeks back about a student in her state (and maybe her district) that cost over $400K a year to educate - yes, you read that right, $400,000+ for one child, one year. And the state will be obligated to pay this amount until the year in which he/she turns 22.
IDEIA is a rough piece of legislation, originally authorized in the mid-70's and reauthorized by every Congress and every president since. Because school districts can be charged for this type of education, the insurance companies will not pay - why should they? the school system is on the hook.
So while it is interesting to laud the work of private schools for the disabled, remember that that work comes with hefty price tags being paid by the tax payers - price tags that are required by law to be paid by the tax payers via the school district. IDEIA isn't going away any time soon. If you don't like it, check with your local Congresscritter to see if he/she voted for the reauthorization in 2004.
Good point.
At my high school we had a 5’6” Italian Dean of Students who would have made Rocky Balboa back down. He taught social studies and in my 9th grade class with him, I watched him slam a kid into a glass wall (luckily it was safety glass) over a discipline issue. The next day he had the boy apologized to the class for wasting our time.
No one EVER messed with Mr. Cinelli, not even the parents.
I have always admired the mothers and grandmothers who can successfully raise boys (and girls, for that matter) without a father - these parents/grandparents keep strict standards, require high levels of moral conduct, and have no problem imposing values/punishment on their sons/grandsons.
Not everyone can be lucky enough to have a father - ask any child of a fallen WW II soldier for example - and there is much a family can do to make up some of the void.
I don't think we're in a better state of affairs now. The breakdown of respect of authority frankly frightens me. I even hear strains of it here on FR, people saying, "well if that were MY kid, the teacher would..." or "I would tell me kid to tell the teacher to stuff it..." or " I would encourage my child to break that rule..." Kids hear these things and it feeds in with the disrespect.
One thing I realized years ago is this "Softball is life" Follow me - If I talk about my child's coach in a negative way at home, double think his decisions, criticize his choices, second guess in front of my child, she steps onto that field with less respect for him and it will show up in how she works with him. If I have a problem with her coach (and I have many times) that is a private discussion between me and coach but in front of her, I am positive and encouraging her to think through his decisions and see how there is good in them. The principle is the same with school. If parents talk down the teachers and principals at home, the kids walks through the door of the school with that disrespect ringing in their minds. The result? A breakdown of performance in every area where an authority figure is present.
Actually I have more example of how “softball is life” that apply to every day actions and decisions. One day, I should write my observations down. One would be surprised how much an organized sport prepares kids for real life.
I absolutely, completely, and totally disagree. We looked at all of our choices and it was the BEST chocie and not the one of last resort. We we used to live, the local school district was not even on our list of considerations, nor was the local Catholic school.......our choice was to MOVE.
Due to my husband's job there were certain geographical limitations in regard to a move and so I started doing research, and part of the research involved school choices because our daughter was nearly 3 at the time we decided it was time to move. You name it and I looked into it, not just schools, but everything else involved in relocating, from real estate values to tax burdens, to jobs availability for me if I decided to go back to the "real" work force.
So our daughter attending a public school was not a last resort choice, it was a concious decision.
As an aside, most of the teachers I know at the nearest private school (an hour's trip from my house) send their children to the public high schools. The private HS tends to attract the trouble makers the public schools don't want.
Why did she do this? In her opinion the public school offered a better education in the fields of math and science. The private school was much stronger in languages and English, but weak in music, AP offerings, lab sciences, and upper level math. The highest they went to is AP Calc AB. She can and will go further in her public school.
The result on her SAT showed she made the right choice. Her newest SAT scores were 710 quantitative, 780 verbal, 720 writing and she already has a verbal offer of full ride (including most of room and board) at her 1st choice private college. She is also the 12th ranked FHorn in the state of Virginia. So, we're doing okay with the public schools here in Virginia
While you are right in many respects, organized/team sports do not prepare kids for the creative side of life. Organized sports do prepare kids to be successful in corporate life but not necessarily to be other things.
Shag,
I understand that many people have few options, however far too many don’t even explore options. I am not trying to blindly bash everyone and everything in the public school system as evil. I have many personal friends who are teachers and administrators in public schools.
I am also not naive enough to believe that no child can be educated in a public school setting. Obviously they can.
However, in the general sense you cannot compare the education recieved in a public school to that of a private school. On average there is just no comparison. Case by case, yes you can find instances that buck the norm, but typically the two are not in the same ballpark.
I have many criticisms of the public school system, from the ungodly price tag. I pay more in property taxes to my school district on a 150k house than I do tuition for my childs private education.... I do so to a district who pays teachers a 60k a year pension for life after 20 years served, thanks to rediculous contract capitulations by the district. (Yes pension commitments alone are a huge portion of the budget. So I am being raped over the coals not to educate (poorly I might add based on test scores) the children of my community, but to ensure that people who work 1/2 a career can retire making 1.5 times the median household income for life, with of course lifetime health benefits that go up about 10% a year that I’ve gotta pay for, etc etc etc.
The entire Middle school system is a joke and needs gone, whoever thought that one up single handedly did more harm to education than anyone else. Lets see take the children who are just at an age where where they need structure and responsibilities and some mentoring the most and put them in a completely artificial environment and let them run amok. K-8 is the only way a child should be, with 6-8th graders earning more responsibility and mentoring of younger students as they move into the top grades, not shipped into a closed system with nothing but other 6-8th graders so no responsibility is required of them... so the beginning of the transition to teenager is stifled into self absorption and self fed rebellion.
Mainstreaming is as well one of the dumbest things ever forced upon children. It aids neither the child nor the class in general to do such things with children who cannot keep up for whatever reasons. They will not be educated effectively to reach their personal potentials, and at the same time will be outcast and ridiculed throughout their schooling. A specialized school will aid these children in reaching their potential far more than plopping them into a system that they cannot function in, just for PC feel goodism.
Problem kids belong in military academies, not in mainstream schools where they will do nothing but disrupt and harm others.
I am absolutely amazed that in a country that generally accpet without question one size and type does not fit all for their morning coffee, believe absolutely stupidly that it is how education should be.
Gender schools traditionally deliver far supperior education to their coed counterparts, particularly for girls, but that’s not PC, so forget that... etc etc etc.
I don’t think all teachers and administrators in public schools are evil uncaring or radical leftist (though there definate are some of each) I don’t believe someone who is so mentally ill that they dress as though they are a member of the oposite gender that they are should be in front of a classroom of children. I don’t believe someone who is mentally ill and engaging in self destructive behaviors such as homosexuality should be in front of children. I don’t believe that gradeschoolers should be talking about homosexuality at all as part of their education, particular in a way that portrays this pitiable mental disorder as “just another lifestyle choice”
I do not believe you can raise a moral child in an environment that is openly hostile to the very foundations of western civilizations morality. Attempts to teach morality without the religous context are half a$$ at best.
I am not saying public schools are not a neccessary evil, they are, but they are the base, the absolute last option, the welfare check of the educational system if you will. It should not be the option of first choice ever.
I am not implying that boys are never raised without a father successfully, or girls without mothers. What I object to is the radical feminist nonesence that fathers are nothing more than objects and paychecks, easily replaced bye an occassional male friend.
Again, you may want to read all of my posts here, I have never said there were not exceptions to the rule. There are always exception to any rule. I still challenge you to read “The Closing of the American Mind” before you celebrate too broadly.
I, too, had a grim and gruff coach in my Calif. HS in the 60's. He was found shot to death on his front porch. Today, his chances of survival would be even worse. Many kids will want to kill this "sucka." He'd better watch his back.
Agreed - 100%, that is why it is my responsibility to educate my child daily and weekly in our family's Christian faith. Does she face situations that are antithetical to our beliefs? yes she does - for starters, every time she turns on the television or listens to a pop song, every time she sees a movie, every time we leave the house it is possible that her faith will be tested in some way. Is it tested at school? Sure it is - but school is not her entire world, it is part of it. If I think it is tested now, how will it be when she attends college where a recent survey stated that college professors are actually hostile to evangelical Christians? I did not leave her religious education to chance. My husband and I purposely set her and her sister on the right path and kept her there with continual attendance and participation in church, modeled by him and I.
As far as education goes, private schools can and are also filled with literature and people that are against Christians ( except for Christian schools, of course). A private education is no substitute for Christian instruction and modeling by parents.
As far as mainstreaming goes - don't forget that mainstreaming is mandated by IDEIA, it is the Federal law. As far as sending kids to a private school for education - it is the special education that drives up the overall cost of education. How would a community save money by sending special needs children to private schools? If I can find an article posted a few weeks ago, the real average to educate a regular, average kid is about $5k a year which is a more reasonable amount when every thing is factored in (books, teachers, administrators, desks, chairs, utilities, buses, insurance, sports, music program, fine arts, science labs, computers, etc.) It is the special education children, especially the severely profound that are the budget busters.
As far as middle school goes, I teach in a middle school and it's a tough call as to where they are best placed at this age. Sometimes I think a K-7 and an 8-12 is best, but you are right, the concept needs to be re-thought.
Oddly enough, I just saw that book in the professional library at my school. Your posts are thoughtful and reasoned out, because I respect you, I will read it and then let you know what I think.
And I'm not naive enough to think that my experience is nation-wide. I know it is not. I celebrate my children and wish that others had the same opportunity. But in all fairness, Virginia schools are some of the best in the nation, that is why Gabz and I, although we live in different parts of the state have similiar feelings towards our schools. Were we to live in Detroit, I would imagine we'd sing a different tune.
It seems the media will not be happy until the character of the nation is destroyed.
I am in total agreement. I was singing that different tune in Delaware, which is one of the reasons we left. My husband, his sisters and his nieces are all products of a central Delaware school district. They are all contributing, productive members of society, no thanks to the school system but rather to the attention paid to their education by their parents and a few dedicated teachers. My husband swore on the graves of his parents no child of his would ever attend a school in that district.
All socialized, "last-resort" institutions evoke the SSE from the populace. Public schools are no different.
I'll explain. You know how people are shocked to find how little Social Security pays out? Such people exclaim, "How can I live on THAT??" Well, you weren't supposed to. You were supposed to save for your retirement and Social Security was meant to be a SUPPLEMENT to your retirement, not the retirement itself! "Who knew? I didn't know. I spent all my money on fun things like vacations and the like. I didn't save. And now who's going to take care of me!?!?!" Well, too bad. I hear WalMart is hiring.
So who knew public education was an education of last restort? Who knew that if you could at all possible send your angel to a private school, you should do so? Who knew that public schooling could possibly be a lower grade education than private schools and prepare your children for a career as washing machine deliverer or vending machine stocker rather than engineer, lawyer, doctor? Just because welfare is there, does it mean everyone should go on welfare?
So the SSE is in effect, we pay for it, the schools are there, and we wonder why our children don't learn much. Just like we wonder why Social Security doesn't pay much.
Speaking of last restorts, though it is off topic, the Federal Reserve is the well known "Lender of Last Resort" to the commercial banks, all members of the federal reserve system. Should local banks that are closer to the people get in trouble, and become insolvent, the layers of banks above come to the rescue, with money. The top layer is the Federal Reserve itself which gushes forth with liquidity to "save" the institutions in trouble. It takes a dollar to buy today what could have been bought with 2 or 3 pennies in 1913; could the SSE be why? The federal reserve moved into finance in the same way the public schools moved into education, and social security moved into retirement, and the result has been about the same, for the nation's finances, the nation's education, and the nation's retirement.
The private schools that appear cheaper than their public school counterparts are usually subsidized by religious denominations, and offer fewer services (such as textbooks, lunches, transportation, etc.) than their public school counterparts.
Some private schools in my area merely have students working out of workbooks in cubicles all day. The quality of education there is not very high.
The quality private schools in my area which are not subsidized by churches charge tuition and fees which are equal to or higher than public school per-student costs, and even the Catholic schools have tuition and fees approaching those costs.
If she can't do anything with her own child, how does she expect the school to?
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