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To: kara37
I agree. Are they really excommunicated, if no one tells them?

Are they still allowed to go to mass, and take communion?

If the pope is going to make a statement like that, it should be enforced.


As I understand it (covering myself!!), the excommunication is automatic, as many have pointed out above.

Excommunication is really your "state" within the Church and in the eyes of God. GOD knows that you are excommunicated, and THAT is the most important thing.

It is theoretically possible, for example, for a woman to become pregnant without telling anyone, secretly receive an abortion, and never tell ANYONE in this world about it. Hence the Church here on earth would never know about it. However, GOD knows. Hence, she is STILL excommunicated. In theory, if she is not catechized very well, she herself may not even KNOW that she is excommunicated, and may die of old age never knowing. The Church has all sorts of other laws to deal with whether or not such an individual is accountable for this or that if, in good faith, they were unaware of their "status". However, at the end of everything, it is a situation that will be in God's hands to judge. As a Catholic, I am not so sure I would want to take the risk!!

So, the answer to your question is yes, they are excommunicated even if no one tells them. The Church does not excommunicate such people, they excommunicate THEMSELVES. As a result, it would behoove all Catholics to be well-catechized in the doctrines of their Church. Otherwise, why bother??

As to your next question, according to my understanding, yes, people who are excommunicated ARE allowed to attend Mass (as is just about anyone, I believe). However, they are NOT allowed to receive Communion. For that matter, no one who is in a state of mortal sin is allowed to receive communion either.

However, as with many things, the Church cannot know the state of your soul, so it is up to the individual to take their religion seriously, be educated about God's laws, and humbly discipline themselves to act accordingly. In fact, taking Communion in a state of excommunication or mortal sin is itelf a mortal sin!! Again, the Church may not know, one's fellow man may not know, but God knows!! It is to Him we will all have to answer.

Even if a priest or bishop disobeys Church law, and gives Communion to a politician they know to be abortion supporters (hence one who is excommunicated), this does not change the fact that the politician would be receiving Communion in violation of Church law. There is no "gotcha" that will get them off the hook in such a situation. For example, Cardinal Mahoney might give Nancy Pelosi Communion, but Nancy Pelosi would STILL be violating Church law by receive Communion is such a state, and in a state of mortal sin (and Mahoney would be guilty of setting a bad example, and confusing a lot of people - something that HE would have to answer for). As far as I know, no member of the Catholic clergy, not even the Pope, is allowed to make changes or exceptions to Church doctrine (the Pope can change canon law, but not eternal unchanging Church doctrine - there is a difference).

Neither the Pope, nor any other Bishop or Cardinal, needs to "enforce" these types of excommunications. They are automatic. Just as a single mortal sin on your soul is enough to send you to hell, so is dying in a state of excommunication. That is what these politicians should be worrying about, not scoring cheap PR points against the Pope. Whether or not any Bishop or Pope makes a formal public announcement, they are still accountable to the only One who really matters, Jesus Christ!! That all by itself should inspire anyone to make sure they are living their lives according to His teachings.

Hence, everything the Pope and Bishops have said on this matter is nothing new. As was stated above by others, they are merely re-stating Church doctrine. As with anything else, those who call themselves Catholics are obligated to believe and obey, or they should find a different church that is more to their liking. However, these politicians should quit this silliness of trying to force the Church to change her doctrines to fit whatever they have decided the world should look like. Therein lies the path to their eternal destruction, no matter how "successful" their lives may have appeared to be while they were in this world.
46 posted on 05/09/2007 11:54:22 AM PDT by Zetman (I believe the children are the next generation.)
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To: Zetman

Thank you for explaining it so clearly. As you can tell, I am not Catholic, but I understand it now.


51 posted on 05/09/2007 2:12:10 PM PDT by kara37
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