Pardon Me? A Congressional Pardon [Duncan Hunter]

NY Times ^ | May 7, 2007 | By Sarah Wheaton

[Jim Robinson]

The power to pardon traditionally belongs to the president. But Representative Duncan Hunter, who is seeking the 2008 Republican nomination, isn’t waiting for Inauguration Day.

Mr. Hunter introduced a bill in January to initiate an unprecedented Congressional pardon of two former border patrol agents currently serving 11- and 12-year sentences after shooting a drug smuggler on the Texas-Mexico border in 2005.

For Mr. Hunter and other immigration hardliners, their conviction is an “extreme injustice.”

While Constitutional objections are “very much a possibility,” said Joe Kasper, Mr. Hunter’s spokesman, he doesn’t see the measure threatening executive power. The president’s required signature on the bill “would obviously be synonymous with his authority to execute a pardon,” he said. “The Congress is doing nothing more than initiating a pardon.”

[Jim Robinson]

Transcript from another famous frame-up job trial:

23 Q. Is it not true that you sprang upon the Whartons with
24 a deadly six-shot revolver?
25 A. I always try to be ready.
26 Q. Was this revolver loaded and cocked?
27 A. A gun that’s unloaded ain’t good for nothing!
28 Q. Just answer, if you please.
29 A. The question don’t make sense!
30 Judge. Don’t bandy words with counsel.
31 A. Yes, sir.
32 Q. You testified you backed away from old man Wharton.
33 A. Yes, sir.
34 Q. Which direction?
35 A. Backward! I always go backward when I’m backing away!

[calcowgirl]

shot an unarmed man in the back (...he was just a mexican anyway)

I rest my case.

[Bob J]

Well, the jury decided he wasn’t armed or they would have found the agents not guilty. Even R&C backed off the gun theory and retreated to the “black shiny object” story hoping, IMO, that the jury might believe OVD had a cellphone or something they mistook for a gun. When asked at trial if he believed OVD had a gun at the scene, Ramos said yes. When asked then if he now thought he had a gun he said “I don’t know”.

What changed between the incident and the trial? If Ramos thought he had a gun that afternoon, what had he seen or heard that now caused him to question that? The answer is nothing. Other than the OVD testimony there was nothing else brought up to either bolster or deflate that belief.

How easy would it have been for Ramos to simply say “Yes, to this day I believe he had a gun”. The obvious answer is they didn’t think the jury would buy it...but they might buy a cell phone theory. Plus, he had to cover not only for his own earlier reports to that effect but also for Compeons testimony that he saw OVD with a gun.

Thinking jury members were never going to buy that Ramos ran out into the exposed vega, not once yelling “SHOTS!” or “MAN DOWN!” or anything you would expect to warn the other agents of danger or that they needed help or that Compeon might have been injured, then while standing upright and fully exposed in the very dangerous vega, shoot once, continue standing and watching for OVD (still fully exposed), then slowly walking back to the ditch with Compeon (both still fully exposed), then climbing and standing on the elevated levee road (that would make them even more exposed)...and also buy that Ramos thought OVD was armed and firing at the agents and that they were in mortal danger.

As for the Mexican reference, I can cite dozens of comments from R&C supporters that echo that sentiment exactly and hundreds that imply such.

[AndrewC]

So, neither of the officers testified they saw a gun in his hand.

They testified to the actions they observed Davila perform, which included what they, at the time, thought was a gun. They didn't have the convenience of weeks of conjecture before they acted on what they observed. They had seconds.

[FortWorthPatriot]

"...except in Cases of Impeachment."

So Slick will never be pardoned? Cool.

[AndrewC]

This is the last time you call me a liar.

Find the word "liar" in the post to which you refer. It is not there. Similarly, "The BPA’s testified they were aiming for the back of his torso on each and every shot" is not to be found in the testimony. Your attempt to twist their words into the testimony of Davila, who denies he turned, is distortion. They fired at a fleeing law-breaker who, they testifed, turned and pointed something at them.

The essence of your position is that you believe Davila and not the agents. I hold the opposite opinion.

[AndrewC]

(...he was just a mexican anyway)

So what ethnicity are Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean? Laplanders?

[AndrewC]

Now do a little experiment. Stand upright with feet together and head pointed north and take something flat, like a ruler or yard stick and lay it across the back of your behind. The ruler points east and west. Keeping your left foot planted, extend you’re right foot three feet in front of you, as if you were running.

Nice, but it is not running. Running involves instants in time when both feet are off of the ground. When a person runs, that person does not attempt to take giant steps and "waddle" along except for the final lunge at the tape. Here are examples including a sequence derived from a running simulation posted on a NASA site.

Thanks to ImageShack for Free Image Hosting. Notice the hips do not shift appreciably. NASA link http://svs.gsfc.nasa.gov/vis/a000000/a000000/a000092/index.html

Finally, one where the individual is looking back over his left shoulder. His hips are definitely turned.

[Bob J]

“You have a habit of making things up.”

If you have a habit if accusing people of “making things up” then won’t own up to calling them a liar, you got a problem. Be a man.

“The essence of your position is that you believe Davila and not the agents. I hold the opposite opinion.”

I could care less what Davila’s testimony was, even the jurors said they gave it no weight. It was the cover up, repeated contradictions in the trial and the BPA’s own testimony that left them unbelievable. Don’t blame that on anyone other the the BPA themselves.

If Davila didn’t show up for the trial, IMHO, the BPA would still be found guilty.

[Bob J]

“So what ethnicity are Ignacio Ramos and Jose Compean? Laplanders?”

American. This shows the issue of ethnicity of the perp is what drives you to drink the kool aid. Whether or not OVD was a Mexican, an American or a Laplander shouldn’t be an issue in a trial like this, but for you it is an overriding aspect.

For some reason you just don’t get this point.

[Bob J]

This is so funny. With the exception of that idiotic computer generated image (which means nothing), the images you post show that as one runs the hips sway enough to bring one buttock in front of the other changing the angle from which a projectile could enter, not to mention the common sense of it.

You are one weird dude.

[Bob J]

By the way, I have never challenged that OVD might have looked back over his shoulder while he was running (possible it happened). The issue is whether he pointed a gun at the BPA. I'll even stipulate that it was possible he might have pointed a finger at them, I've considered this possibility. But a finger is not a gun and we can't have cops going around shooting people because they point a finger at them.

[A Navy Vet]

Bob, what could be more important that maintaining our sovereignty?

And let me ask you...just how many more people do you want in this nation, illegal or not? 3,000,000? 5,000,000? 8,000,000? 11,000,000? 19,000,000? 21,000,000? 28,000,000? 32 frigging million? 54 frigging million? One hundred frigging million??? Just when does the number turn our nation into a third world state? Do you have NO concept of history?

How many will be the right number? How many will it take to turn your own neighborhood into a ghetto, like I've seen it happen to neighborhoods in Ventura, Los Angeles, Orange, Riverside, San Bernardino, Vern counties???

Got gate? If so, enjoy for the while...the barbarians will be there within your lifetime. They have long moved beyond East Los Angeles. Peace bro.

[A Navy Vet]

" Either we protect the rights of everyone or no one is safe."

Having been on the AZ border back in 2005, I saw NO PERSONS with Rights to our system. They snuck across our borders and broke our laws. Guess what? We have borders. You don't like that - too bad.

[A Navy Vet]

" I’m all for fully supporting the efforts of our BPA’s,

What the hell is a BPA?

They are either Border Patrol or Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) or Customs and Border Protection (CBP). If the last letter of your acronym meant "agent", they are not called that by the rank and file. Gawd, you are so clueless.

"Condoning such obvious and dangerous violations of anyones civil rights is a slippery slope to a police state. Illegals may be the “jews” of 21st century America,..."

YOU have lost your ever-loving mind if you dare to equate the two. Your mind seems to not work correctly if you really think the extermination of an entire ethnic group is similar to protecting a sovereign border.

You're friggin nuts...or do you have a vested interest in illegal workers? I know your industry...it is rife with illegals, other than the students who do the delivery jobs that illegals can't do without a car. Tell me otherwise. Don't bs me...I know and live the truth.

[AndrewC]

If you have a habit if accusing people of “making things up” then won’t own up to calling them a liar, you got a problem. Be a man.

I am a man. I said you had a habit of making things up. You really believe the stories you make up, but they are nonetheless, made up.

What coverup? Ramos did not pickup or dispose of casings. Ramos did no less than Juarez and Vasquez in the report of the gun fire. Ramos had no reason to believe that the others had not heard the shots. When he crested the levee on his way back, everyone was present at the Sierra Delta.

Anyway, your admission that Davila's testimony was of no relevance indicates your utter disregard for the process of a trial. Even I give some credence to Davila. He did say he was shot at the rivers edge by a shot which was distinctly separate from other shots.

[AndrewC]

This shows the issue of ethnicity of the perp is what drives you to drink the kool aid.

You're "nuts". You brought up the term "mexican". I was answering your inane introduction of something that was completely irrelevant.

[EmilyGeiger]

Wow, I hope it works....I’m glad he’s trying this. Of course, it scares me a little too, because if this works, what other dem. nuts might try it as well. Those poor men deserve a pardon though. I hate that this has happened to them.

[AndrewC]

This is so funny. With the exception of that idiotic computer generated image (which means nothing), the images you post show that as one runs the hips sway enough to bring one buttock in front of the other changing the angle from which a projectile could enter, not to mention the common sense of it.

It is funny to you since your unconscious reaction to the evidence is the source of the humor. First the "idiotic" computer generated image uses precise measurements to model human anatomy in the process of running. It is a simulation of that process, thus it is a prime example and evidence of the process of running. You many ignore the simulation, but I think most anybody with an open mind and the capability to reason will see that hips do not "sway" back and forth in the process of normal running.

Second, the images clearly show that legs extend, but hips remain aligned with the shoulders of the runners except in the case of the runner who is looking back over his left shoulder.

Third, buttocks don't move one in front of the other except in relation to another point. If the point is directly behind the runner, all that happens is that one buttock is closer to the point than the other buttock. The entry path essentially remains the same, parallel to the runners path. If, however, the point is offset to either side of the runner, the entry path will be at an angle to the runners path. Since, Davila was running directly away from the agents, the path should have been parallel to his path. It was not. He was turned.

[Bob J]

“First the “idiotic” computer generated image uses precise measurements to model human anatomy in the process of running. It is a simulation of that process, thus it is a prime example and evidence of the process of running.”

Well, since the bullet entered the buttock maybe a similation of buttocks would have been in order.

“You many ignore the simulation, but I think most anybody with an open mind and the capability to reason will see that hips do not “sway” back and forth in the process of normal running.”

I ignore the simulation because it does not include the essential elements of the question. You must have looked long and hard to find a computer video that had nothing to do with what we were talking about. Nice work.

I could care less about your stupid ass computer simulation. If you don’t think the hips and pelvis sway at all when a person is in a full run, well, you’re a nincompoop.