Posted on 05/07/2007 11:36:09 AM PDT by bedolido
I don’t think the Mormons are in control of Wikipedia. Be brave, give it a read.
I’m curious about your religious beliefs. Are you what is popularly referred to as an evangelical Christian, or perhaps a non-denominational Christian?
What is your take on the “bishops” who attended the Council? Do you believe they represented Christ’s church, i.e. what was the basis of their authority?
What has happened to Christ’s church since then?
I can see you are sincere in your beliefs, and I respect that. I ask out of a desire to understand the point of view of someone with your religious beliefs.
Acts 1: 23, 26 23 And they appointed two, Joseph called Barsabas, who was surnamed Justus, and Matthias. • • • 26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.
The 11 were choosing one to fill the place of Judas. They did not add Matthias and Barsabas but cast lots (voted and relied on the Spirit of Revelation) and chose only Matthias to be an Apostle. IOW, Barsabas was not called and ordained as an Apostle.
Anyone can be a follower of Christ, (I believe you are one and I) and even have the Spirit manifest in their life including miracles, but the calling of an Apostle is something different.
They are personal witnesses of Christ, not in the sense of just having accepted him into our hearts as you or I but an actual real physical and personal witness. (Theophany to use a Christian Orthodox term)
Luke 24:46 And said unto them, Thus it is written, and thus it behoved Christ to suffer, and to rise from the dead the third day: 47 And that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in his name among all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. 48 And ye are witnesses of these things.
It entails a personal witness of Christ and having the Keys of teh Kingdom (priesthood authority to bind and loose)
Matt 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. 17 And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Bar-jona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed it unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
An Apostle requires Ordination (the laying on of hands)by one who has authority
Acts 1:22 Beginning from the baptism of John, unto that same day that he was taken up from us, must one be ordained to be a witness with us of his resurrection.
Christ’s church is built on the foundation of Apostles and prophets
Ephesians 2:20 And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone;
Luke 6:13 ¶ And when it was day, he called unto him his disciples: and of them he chose twelve, whom also he named apostles;
John 15:16 Ye have not chosen me, but I have chosen you, and ordained you, that ye should go and bring forth fruit, and that your fruit should remain: that whatsoever ye shall ask of the Father in my name, he may give it you.
You may not be interested int his next part.... but Jesus called 12 Apostles anciently in the Americas also after his ressurection when he visited the poeples there.
Book of Mormon - 3 Nephi 12:1 And it came to pass that when Jesus had spoken these words unto Nephi, and to those who had been called, (now the number of them who had been called, and received power and authority to baptize, was twelve) and behold, he stretched forth his hand unto the multitude, and cried unto them, saying: Blessed are ye if ye shall give heed unto the words of these twelve whom I have chosen from among you to minister unto you, and to be your servants; and unto them I have given power that they may baptize you with water; and after that ye are baptized with water, behold, I will baptize you with fire and with the Holy Ghost; therefore blessed are ye if ye shall believe in me and be baptized, after that ye have seen me and know that I am.
In modern times he has called 12 more. There are the twelve apostles today.
Doctrine and Covenants 18: 26 And now, behold, there are others who are called to declare my gospel, both unto Gentile and unto Jew; 27 Yea, even twelve; and the Twelve shall be my disciples, and they shall take upon them my name; and the Twelve are they who shall desire to take upon them my name with full purpose of heart. 28 And if they desire to take upon them my name with full purpose of heart, they are called to go into all the world to preach my gospel unto every creature.
D&C 107:23 The twelve traveling councilors are called to be the Twelve Apostles, or special witnesses of the name of Christ in all the world—thus differing from other officers in the church in the duties of their calling.
D&C 20:2 Which commandments were given to Joseph Smith, Jun., who was called of God, and ordained an apostle of Jesus Christ, to be the first elder of this church;
We claim to have the office of Apostle in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints with 12 apostles today who have the keys and authority and personal witness (Theophany) of the ressurected Christ.
Hmmmm. Did someone say "everybody" was an Apostle. You seem way off point.
Your long post to me is meandering. You seem to have a hard time focussing on a central point.
You would be more effective if you could concentrate and not feel compelled to throw extraneous items in your postings which don't really address the issue.
Truth is...there are apostles.
However, the Urim and Thummim were part of the Jewish Temple system; this ended with Christ's death which fulfilled the Temple laws.
You may feel compelled to respond with many bible verses which don't address what we're discussing; but this practice you use only displays fuzzy thinking.
You said Apostolic works were present today. My simple point is that they are not unless one has the actual office of Apostle. In Christ's day that was limited to 12.
The Church of Jesus Christ claims a Restoration (Restitution) of all things in the last Days. That includes temple work, the lesser and higher preisthood and many other things (Elijah returning etc. etc.)
Acts 3:21 Whom the heaven must receive until the times of restitution of all things, which God hath spoken by the mouth of all his holy prophets since the world began.
Ephesians 1:10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might bgather together in one call things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him:
Articles of Faith - 6 We believe in the same organization that existed in the Primitive Church, namely, apostles, prophets, pastors, teachers, evangelists, and so forth.
A of F - 10 We believe in the literal gathering of Israel and in the restoration of the Ten Tribes; that Zion (the New Jerusalem) will be built upon the American continent; that Christ will reign personally upon the earth; and, that the earth will be renewed and receive its paradisiacal glory.
Yes, I did. As opposed to the Temple practices which are not needed. The book of Hebrews is all about this. You don't seem to understand the sufficiency of Christ.
What constitutes an apostle isn't the issue.
You are getting off point easily.
“Because Jesus is God’s ONLY Son.
“Only believers can be adopted through faith in Christ. Unbelievers and Satan have never been and will never be part of the family.”
Jesus is God’s only begotten son IN THE FLESH. God the Father has billions of spirit sons and daughters. We were once one of them before we came to earth to gain a mortal body. On the other hand, Lucifer and his followers were cast out from God’s presence and did not get mortal bodies after they refused to follow God’s plan.
Romney really screwed up in the speech at Regent.
Its going to be all over the news tomorrow. And he was getting some good press because of Al Sharpton.
http://volokh.com/posts/1178747191.shtml
http://instapundit.com/archives2/005021.php
Nonsense. The Bible does not say that. It says "only Son". PERIOD.
We were once one of them before we came to earth to gain a mortal body
That's hocus-pocus.
Actually “Nature” magazine did a study on Wiki and found it was only slightly less accurate than Encyclopedia Brittannica. Most articles it was just as accurate or even more. It also is up to date in real time. It was less accurate about less well known or understood topics. However it has 1.5 million articles compared to Brittanicas 70,000. Since it is open source if you post anything ridiculous (or delete entries, called Vandalism) it is soon corrected by the tens of thousands who regularly post to it. It is the closest thing we have to a sum storage of human knowledge.
In the last days there is to be a Restitution (Restoration) of all things as I previously cited. That includes temple work. Temple work was a common practiec among post apostolic Christians.
Restoring the Ancient Church: Joseph Smith and Early Christianity - Chapter 6 - The Temple
That is false.
The Apostles preached in the Temple for a short time after Jesus' resurrection because that's where the people gathered.
They did no "Temple Work".
I see you didn't follow the link.
Perhaps you'd be interested to find out how Peter, Origen, Ignatius of Antioch, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Lactantius, Basil of Caesarea, Athanasius etc. etc. differ with you on that one.
Yes I did. And nothing in your link contradicts my statement. There is nothing there concerning the early Apostles being involved in "Temple Work".
Again, you are not thinking clearly.
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