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Communist symbol returns to Russian Army's flag
AuBC News ^ | Saturday, May 5, 2007. 12:06pm (AEST)

Posted on 05/04/2007 8:48:35 PM PDT by james500

Russia's Parliament has voted to restore the communist-era hammer and sickle to the official flag of the Russian Army.

It is expect President Vladimir Putin will ratify the move in time for next week's commemorations marking the end of World War II in Europe.

If so, Russians will again have the Soviet version of the victory banner for next week's Victory in Europe parade in Moscow.

For many Russians, especially the elderly, its symbolism is immense.

The red banner, together with the hammer, sickle and a white star, was the one raised on the Reichstag roof on May 1, 1945.

Millions of people all over the world know that photograph, but in Russia its significance is much deeper, with the Soviet victory over fascism in World War II remaining something seen in almost religious terms.

(Excerpt) Read more at abc.net.au ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Foreign Affairs; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: coldwar2; commielovingfreepers; communism; putin; russia; sovietunion; ussr; ww2
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To: Tailgunner Joe

The Berlin Wall came down largely due to two events: 1) Hungary removed border restrictions with Austria, and East German tourists began travelling to Austria via Hungary; and 2) returning from Austria, East Germans began demonstrating against Honecker, who was replaced by Krenz.

I don’t think most of those East Germans heard Reagan’s speech.


141 posted on 05/09/2007 1:55:39 PM PDT by instantgratification
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

Don’t you know, it wasn’t Russians, they had nothing to do with the Soviet Union, they were only its innocent victims. Europe was liberated by Georgians, Ukrainians and Balts.


142 posted on 05/09/2007 1:56:11 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: instantgratification
Ronald Reagan Bust Inaugurated in Budapest - September 22, 2006 - At the inauguration Ambassador April Foley, Budapest Mayor Gábor Demszky, and former Hungarian Ambassador to the United States Péter Zwack eulogized the 40th U.S. President and drew attention to the role he played in the democratization of Eastern Europe.
143 posted on 05/09/2007 2:17:11 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

That is the total Soviet population, and may be underestimated, based on archival research.

The number of Ukrainians killed is 10 million, plus another 2.5 million taken as slave labour, most of whom died in Germany.

About 600,000 died in the Baltics.

1 in 4 Belarussians were killed by the Germans - around 3.5 million.

About 6 million Russians died.

The balance are from the remaining Soviet republics.


144 posted on 05/09/2007 2:20:56 PM PDT by instantgratification
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To: Tailgunner Joe
This doesn't prove your hypothesis. I admire Reagan for stating East Europeans deserved freedom. That is something no president stated openly. And, judging by some of the posts on this forum, many think, for example, that Russians do not yearn for freedom. I think that is why East Europeans today eulogize Reagan. But did he "free" those countries? No, he did not.
145 posted on 05/09/2007 2:26:37 PM PDT by instantgratification
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To: james500

Watch for a new party (maybe not labeled Communist) and a new politburo with Putin as the head. When he steps down as president he’ll still hold all the power as head of the new politburo (or whatever they call it) and the president will just be a figurehead.

Czar Vladimir the first.


146 posted on 05/09/2007 2:28:03 PM PDT by Phsstpok (Often wrong, but never in doubt)
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To: instantgratification

I am glad that the Eastern Europeans disagree with you.


147 posted on 05/09/2007 2:32:45 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe
You missed my point. They don't disagree with me. East Europeans admire that Reagan understood communism. They admire that he believed they deserve freedom. But very few will say Reagan caused the collapse of communism. And you definitely would not get that reaction in Ukraine or Russia, even though Reagan is admired there, as well. I
148 posted on 05/09/2007 2:42:12 PM PDT by instantgratification
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To: instantgratification
Europe: 'It is due to him that we are free' - June 6, 2004 - Leaders, former dissidents and ordinary citizens across eastern Europe expressed gratitude to Ronald Reagan for helping to end decades of "evil empire" communism and Cold War-era oppression.

"He is the one who allowed the breakup of the Soviet Union. May God rest his soul," said Bogdan Chireac, a foreign affairs analyst for the Romanian newspaper Adevarul.

"Mr. Reagan, along with Pope John Paul II, was one of the architects who dismantled communism in eastern Europe and stopped the expansion of the Soviet Union," said Ivo Samson, an analyst with the Slovak Foreign Policy Association.

"For us, Reagan was important because we knew he was really anticommunist, emotionally anticommunist," said Zdenek Kosina, 65, a Czech. "For us, he was a symbol of the United States' genuine determination to bring communism to an end."

Laurentiu Ivan, 35, a customs officer in the Romanian capital, struggled to describe Reagan's legacy and then said: "It is due to him that we are free."

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1148365/posts

149 posted on 05/09/2007 2:52:25 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe
They are saying exactly what I posted. Your original post stated Reagan "brought down communism" by supporting jihadists in Afghanistan. My point was no, that is not what brought down communism. What these individuals are saying, if you actually read them carefully, is that Reagan was anticommunist. That he believed East Europeans deserved freedom. That is different from actually creating the conditions which caused the demise of the Soviet bloc. But yeah, I'd agree, John Paul II gets most of the credit for that.
150 posted on 05/09/2007 2:57:40 PM PDT by instantgratification
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To: instantgratification
"Reagan bolstered the U.S. military might to ruin the Soviet economy, and he achieved his goal," said Gennady Gerasimov, who was the top spokesman for the Soviet Foreign Ministry during the 1980s. - LINK
151 posted on 05/09/2007 2:59:30 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Do you believe a member of the nomenklatura, closely tied with Gorbachev, Shevardnadze, and the policies of so called “glasnost’” and “perestroika” is going to admit the USSR collapsed because people no longer were willing to live like animals or accept these contrived polices?

The KGB analytic department was tracking the decline of the Soviet economy for decades. I lived in the USSR (the spouse of a Soviet citizen) for part of the Reagan administration and for the year before the collapse. This is also in accordance with analyses of COMECON stats by Western specialists, though frankly, they underestimated the problem, which was revealed completely after the collapse of the USSR.

Incidentally, Gerasimov is on trial for money laundering and theft of state property.


152 posted on 05/09/2007 3:09:43 PM PDT by instantgratification
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To: instantgratification
"Ronald Reagan won the Cold War without firing a shot." - Margaret Thatcher

I guess she had nothing to do with it either?

153 posted on 05/09/2007 3:14:22 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: instantgratification
"The peoples behind the Iron Curtain yearned to be free, to speak their minds, to publish their thoughts, and most of all, to think for themselves. While a few dissidents had the courage to express those yearnings openly, most were simply afraid. We dissidents were certain, however, that freedom would be seized by the masses at the first opportunity because we understood that fear and a deep desire for liberty are not mutually exclusive. Fortunately there were a few leaders in the West who could look beyond the facade of Soviet power to see the fundamental weakness of a state that denied its citizens freedom. Western policies of accommodation, regardless of their intent, were effectively propping up the Soviet’s tiring arms. Had that accommodation continued, the USSR might have survived for decades longer. By adopting a policy of confrontation instead, an enervated Soviet regime was further burdened. ...Beset on the inside by dissidents demanding the regime live up to its international commitments and pressed on the outside by leaders willing to link their diplomacy to internal Soviet changes, Soviet leaders were forced to lower their arms. The spark of freedom that was unleashed spread like a brushfire to burn down an empire." - Natan Sharansky
154 posted on 05/09/2007 3:25:38 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

No, she didn’t.

So called “glasnost’” and “perestroika” were planned before Reagan or Thatcher even took office.

Gorbachev was handpicked by Andropov to succeed him (Andropov died too early to have consolidated his forces to appoint Gorbachev).

You can google until the cows come home. I have a graduate degree in Soviet studies. I lived in the USSR during parts of those times, the spouse of a Soviet citizen. I learned how to read Soviet papers to discern the truth. I have family members who spent time in Soviet gulags. My FIL was a dissident, jailed for over 15 years. One thing I know well, learned from a spouse who was taught well by my FIL, is how communists think.

The external world had little influence on Soviet mentality, other than to buttress the view that “we are about to be attacked”. There were far more pressing domestic issues to deal with which drove Soviet policy than anything emanating from the West.


155 posted on 05/09/2007 3:26:16 PM PDT by instantgratification
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Oh please. Why not post Sinyavsky and Daniel, too?

When I was in grad school, I claimed they were KGB agents. Having lived in the USSR, I said something was just too “neat” about their trials. My prof, reputedly a CIA agent, disagreed vehemently.

Fast forward to the early 1990’s. The archives are released. Surprise surprise. The Sinyavsky and Daniel trial was a KGB designed action.

Want to google some quotes about Sharansky’s role as a hut captain?


156 posted on 05/09/2007 3:28:42 PM PDT by instantgratification
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To: instantgratification
Ronald Reagan's Secret Anti-Soviet War - As president of the United States, Ronald Reagan initiated a sweeping and unprecedented program of covert actions and economic-warfare initiatives that acted to greatly weaken the Soviet economy, its support for "wars of liberation," and its hold on its power in Eastern Europe....one of the most important NSC findings was NSDD 32, which authorized covert U.S. support of the Polish free union, Solidarity, and other anti-Soviet institutions in Poland to weaken and neutralize Soviet influence in that country. Another finding, NSDD-66, authorized the United States to wage economic and resource war on a "strategic triad" of resources deemed critical to the survival of the Soviet economy, including technology, trade and credits, according to former senior Reagan administration officials. This especially targeted Soviet imports of advanced Western technology and also Russia's oil industry, upon whose earnings Moscow depended for the bulk of its hard currency...
157 posted on 05/09/2007 3:33:02 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Oh, so Reagan caused the collapse of the world oil market. HAHAHA.

Solidarnosc would not have come off the ground had Pope John Paul II not endorsed it by telling Poles they had nothing to fear. It was after John Paul’s visit that millions joined Solidarnosc.

Cash had no impact on Solidarnosc’s success. Poland was an impetus because, unlike other parts of the USSR, once Solidarnosc was formed, workers united with the intelligentsia. That had never happened anywhere else in the Soviet bloc. Ever. Soviet dissidents were largely failed communists. Only a couple (Bukovsky, for one) were not trying to be “better communists”. They held the working class in contempt. And that is why such a movement was never formed in the USSR. The first person in the USSR to “speak” normally to the working man was Yeltsin.

As for the rest, nobody knew what was “vital” to the Soviet economy. This is a nice theory, but you know what? All those analytics in the CIA and military intelligence were taken completely by surprise by the collapse of the USSR.

What, exactly, does that tell you about American intelligence operations? I can’t blame them - totalitarian states are virtually impossible to infiltrate.


158 posted on 05/09/2007 3:40:01 PM PDT by instantgratification
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To: instantgratification

that should read “unlike other parts of the Eastern bloc”, not the USSR.


159 posted on 05/09/2007 3:42:47 PM PDT by instantgratification
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To: instantgratification
By early 1983, the Treasury Department, under the direction of Casey and Weinberger, had completed a voluminous study of U.S. and Soviet energy costs. The study had discovered that the best price required by the United States for a barrel of crude oil was only $20. This was far below the $34 per barrel being charged in 1983. If oil prices came down, it would save the United States almost $72 million a year, or almost one percent of the gross national product. What would a fall in the oil price do to the Russians?

Very ugly things, it seemed. The study concluded that while a cut in oil prices would boost U.S. economic welfare, the same cut would have a "devastating effect on the Soviet economy," in the words of one former Reagan adviser. In fact, Reagan National Security Adviser Bill Clark told Schweizer that "Ronald Reagan was fully aware that energy exports represented the centerpiece of Moscow's hard-currency earnings." The energy-export industry was working at full capacity. A drop in price, and the Russians were badly lamed.

Soon U.S. officials were huddling in Geneva with the Saudi oil adviser, Sheikh Ahmed Zaki Yamani. Following the meeting, the United States announced it was cutting its oil imports from 220,000 barrels per day to 145,000 barrels. In late February, the Saudi ambassador, Prince Bandar, met with senior U.S. officials, including Casey and Weinberger, according to former Reagan officials who were involved.

Abruptly, the Saudis boosted production of oil, resulting in lower world prices. By August 1985, Saudi production jumped from 2 billion barrels a day to 9 billion. Since Saudi Arabia was the swing producer in OPEC, which used its production levels to control the market price of crude, the effect was instantaneous. In Russia, the effect was calamitous...

160 posted on 05/09/2007 4:00:41 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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