I don’t think Christian churches have tightly controlled beliefs as you say. The core doctrines are shared by all Christians. I guess we don’t see the differences between churches as being that big of a deal. You are right, churches can control who are members and who they can kick out if they want to. But again, it is Christianity that defines us, not our church or denomination so much.
You are right, I don’t know what you personally believe, and that is why I am trying to speak in general terms about Mormons and Christians. I don’t mean to tell you what you believe. The beliefs of the LDS are out there for people to read about, and are not secret, right? So people can know them.
Tell me if I am wrong, but you seem to think that Christians cannot know if they are really Christians or not. I think we can know, and we do know. If we didn’t have some defining doctrines, then we couldn’t know. But we do have defining doctrines, and therefore we can say if a religion/denomination/church is Christian or not. That is not judging, although I can see how it would feel that way. It is simply a matter of whether or not a religion/denomination/church accepts the core doctrines of Christianity or not. Very simple.
Again, if I say I am a Mormon, but I don’t believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, but instead believe that Bob Dylan was a prophtet of God and that his writings are sacred, am I a Mormon? How do you know?
If the only difference between Mormons and Christians was that Mormons believe Joseph Smith was the prophet of God, that in itself is enough to say Mormonism does not agree with the core doctrines of Christianity. Same goes for the BOM, that in an of itself does not agree with the core doctrines of Christianity. And that’s just two things for starters. There are many more. That is why I said that it is plain as the sky is blue that Mormonism does not agree with the core doctrines of Christianity.
I am not doing my best as a Christian, because our salvation is not based on being a good Christian or our own works, it is a free gift.
Yes you are certainly free to seek and understand God as you see fit. I am not trying to change your beliefs. God be with you. :-)
Abigail Adams wrote: “Tell me if I am wrong, but you seem to think that Christians cannot know if they are really Christians or not. I think we can know, and we do know.”
This is Saundra: When I was a Southern Baptist, the same people used to go to the alter to get saved over and over. I never felt sure of my salvation. Once saved always saved . . . ?
Then I got re-baptized into the Pentecostal Church of God (talk about the emotional); I spoke in tongues (although the baptists had warned me that speaking in tongues was from the devil). I was “slain in the spirit” many times. I ended up not liking the fact that the guy in the wheelchair just sat there with a sad confused look on his face while another guy was jumping up and down praising the Lord because he got healed of a headache! The preachers said that it is ALWAYS God’s will for you to be healed so therefore if you didn’t get healed, you just didn’t have enough faith. I heard plenty of anti-Mormon sermons.
I joined Youth With A Mission (Christian missionary group stationed in Kailua-Kona Hawaii, a/k/a University of the Nations) and we “served a mission” for 18 months in Belize Central America during which time my little boy came down with giardia. I felt funny in Belize (Village of Roaring Creek) because as far as I’m concerned the Christians (for example Pastor Ochoa) were better and deeper Christians than we YWAMers could ever hope to be and yet we were sent to “save” them. It was weird. Also went to China, Hong Kong and Okinawa Japan on missionary outreach.
I did not like it that one preacher would preach one thing and another preacher would come along and contradict the other preacher. It made me kind of sick to my stomach. I think I understand how Joseph Smith felt (a little anyway) when he was confused about which church to join and asked the Lord for help.
I don’t think Christian churches have tightly controlled beliefs as you say.
If the beliefs of these churches is not different, then why are there so many of them? Do you accept Catholics as Christian? Do they agree the all protestant churches are the same as them and that there is not much difference?
The core doctrines are shared by all Christians.
Please list for me these core doctrines that are shared by all Christians.
I would also like to see the scriptural reference or other documentation that defines this list.
I guess we don’t see the differences between churches as being that big of a deal. You are right, churches can control who are members and who they can kick out if they want to. But again, it is Christianity that defines us, not our church or denomination so much.
So, you don’t see much difference (“we” unless you have a survey, or are an elected leader is inaccurate) I do, the Catholics do, the Calvinists do, the Jehovah’s witnesses do, the Methodists do… These are just some of the “churches” I have spent time with and they all see huge differences in their doctrine and that of other churches.
You are right, I don’t know what you personally believe, and that is why I am trying to speak in general terms about Mormons and Christians.
You realize that when you “Generalize” if any one exception can be found then you are incorrect. So, if there was one Mormon anywhere in the world that just happened, even accidentally to be a Christian, and you know that it’s possible you are not telling the truth. (I go here for a reason, not just to be annoying.)
So by “Generalizing”, you are stating that there is not one Christian in the LDS church of over 12 million people. This means that I, as a Mormon, cannot be a Christian according to you. You have now by Judging (yes, Judging) my church and finding an absolute judged me.
I know you did not see it that way, but any member of any church you are so generalizing about will, be they Catholic, Jewish, Buddhist, or Mormon. When you speak about a church in absolutes, you are speaking about each and every member because they are part of that church. Next time try Some Mormons, even Most Mormons, the Mormons I have met… These limiting statements allow people to say in their heart, well she didn’t mean to judge Me. And you will get a gentler response.
Proverbs 15: 1 A SOFT answer turneth away wrath: but grievous words stir up anger.
I don’t mean to tell you what you believe. The beliefs of the LDS are out there for people to read about, and are not secret, right? So people can know them.
Yet, you tell me what I believe, and you say it is not in Jesus Christ. All my protestations to the contrary are not heard by you for you in your heart, already know what I believe. This is how your posts look to me or any other Mormon. Yes, the beliefs are out on the web for all to see and read and realize that we believe in Jesus Christ we are not ashamed of him, we trust that he will not be ashamed of us.
Try reading what we actually believe. Do not “Filter” it through what you know for what you know just isn’t so.
"The trouble with our liberal friends is not that they're ignorant: It's just that they know so much that isn't so." - Ronald Reagan
This is Free Republic, a conservative site, give me that chance to tell you what I believe, instead of “hearing it form the grapevine”.
Tell me if I am wrong, but you seem to think that Christians cannot know if they are really Christians or not.
You are wrong, grin, happy? I will answer as to why after your reasons why you are not:
I think we can know, and we do know. If we didn’t have some defining doctrines, then we couldn’t know. But we do have defining doctrines, and therefore we can say if a religion/denomination/church is Christian or not. That is not judging, although I can see how it would feel that way. It is simply a matter of whether or not a religion / denomination/church accepts the core doctrines of Christianity or not. Very simple.
Churches have defining doctrines.
Faith is basically a
belief in something. When you speak of people being “of a faith”, it is because they believe in the same thing. The Christian Faith is generally defined by a belief in Jesus Christ, which I have. You have told me that I do not actually have that faith. Only I and Jesus Christ can know that. You cannot say, for you cannot know. Not knowing if I have actual faith you then cannot say if I or my church is Christian. You may call me a heretic, apostate, or even (gasp) wrong. What you cannot say is that I am not a Christian, for if I say I am, you cannot know. You talk of “defining doctrines” it is as clear as the sky is blue that if you cannot list them, and source them to scripture that they do not truly exist.
I testify to you that Jesus Christ is my redeemer, my Savior, in him only have I hope of redemption, his blood was shed for me on the cross at Calvary and he is resurrected and stands at the right hand of God as Saul testified.
I also testify to you that I am a Christian.
Again, if I say I am a Mormon, but I don’t believe Joseph Smith was a prophet of God, but instead believe that Bob Dylan was a prophet of God and that his writings are sacred, am I a Mormon? How do you know?
Well, the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints is a church, so there is a central authority for that church, and you will be not be in “good standing” with the church and that is how you will know.
There is no central “Authority” for Christianity but Jesus Christ himself
If the only difference between Mormons and Christians was that Mormons believe Joseph Smith was the prophet of God, that in itself is enough to say Mormonism does not agree with the core doctrines of Christianity. Same goes for the BOM, that in and of itself does not agree with the core doctrines of Christianity. And that’s just two things for starters. There are many more. That is why I said that it is plain as the sky is blue that Mormonism does not agree with the core doctrines of Christianity.
1. Where does it say there will be no more revelation from God?
Do you know what
Syllogism is?
Here is a Syllogism:
A. God does not change.
B. God has revealed his will to men
C. God will continue to reveal his will to men
So, a “True” church will be receiving God’s will somehow, the traditional way of receiving god’s will is through a prophet. Why is this a problem for you?
2. because we have some books of scripture you do not, we are not Christians? I hate to break it to you but the Catholic bible has a few books that are missing in our KJV. The Bible was compiled by councils of men who decided what was going to be considered cannon of their church, many Christian churches have many different cannons. The USA was settled primarily by Anglo Saxon Protestants who brought their cannon with them. There are for example Ethiopian churches that have a book written by
Enoch which was widely quoted by Jesus and the apostles in the NT.
God has said more to man than you have in your KJV Bible.
I am not doing my best as a Christian, because our salvation is not based on being a good Christian or our own works, it is a free gift.
Abigail, please read the following chapter and tell me what you think (it’s pretty short)
James 2 (If you want to read it existentially, be consistent, and read the rest of the Bible that way to, LOL)
Yes you are certainly free to seek and understand God as you see fit. I am not trying to change your beliefs. God be with you. :-)
No, you are not trying to change what I believe; you are just denying that I believe it.
God be with you too, may he teach you his ways, for they are not the ways of man.