Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy
You seem to think Utah would be lost to conservativism without Mormonism. That is my point. That you think Mormonism is what makes Utah conservative....and not that the principals of conservatism make Utah conservatism.
Your view is troubling - - and it was that view that I was addressing specifically.
I don’t call what non LDS have done electing Rocky Anerson, bars, strip joints, tatoo parlars, taror card readers, etc. is part of Conservatism CC.
“Same here. The only one I wouldn’t vote for is MeCain.”
Yours is an interesting point. I would never vote for Giuliani. You would never vote for McCain. Others on this thread have stated they would never vote for Romney.
It looks like we’re destined to be split no matter who gets the nomination (of the current top three). What I’m wondering is if those who would never vote for McCain or Giuliani outnumber those who would never vote for Romney. Somehow, I get the sense that the conservative base is more concerned with conservatism than with religion, so I think they might.
Is there ever going to be a good candidate that everybody can agree on? I’m not so sure. I would guess that Reagan had plenty of detractors of his own.
Nope Salt Lake city is part of the Urban phenomenon I was talking about Resty. Salt Lake City according to Church records is 48% Mormon, yet they allowed a complete, moron athiestic ex-mormon like Rocky Anderson to control it's mecca for eight years. It is sickening isn't it.
Thank you so much for clarifying my point.
There are good stories and bad stories out there. I’m glad your parents were the recipients of good and not bad. I know people that had bad experiences and even got letters saying they were no longer baptised because they wanted out. They were so distraught, I had a hard time reminding them that God knows their hearts and that the LDS church couldn’t take away their baptism. Oh, and why they left? Because they were dirt poor and couldn’t pay their tithing bills that kept coming in the mail. These elders had been to their home and could see what I saw. Broken steps, peeling paint and wallpaper. A few years later the house was condemned, that’s how bad it was, yet, they were sent tithing bills they couldn’t pay and they asked to leave because they couldn’t pay the tithes. For that, they got a letter saying they were unbaptised.
“This is an oath taken by Romney in the mormon temple. Are you certain that if Romney took the presidential oath of office it would supersede this oath?”
What you fail to understand, greyfoxx, is that the Kingdom of God and Zion are spiritual organizations, referring to the LDS Church itself. This oath has nothing to do with politics or nations. It means being willing to serve in the Church and help to build it up.
Therefore, to ask if the oath of office would supersede this oath is a moot question. They are not incompatible; Romney is perfectly capable of fulfilling both simultaneously.
You read the oath through the lens of your own interpretation, rather than that of those who actually take it. This is a mistake.
“If you can think of a single reason why he’s the Dim majority leader other than as a lure to Mormons toward the Dim party, I’d love to hear it.”
I can’t. The choice mystified me at the time, too. Still, as a conservative, I like it; he’s remarkably inept.
“And I don’t think it’s any coincidence that Salt Lake has gone after the FLDS with a vengeance now (but not before the Olympic there). We’ve all know about FLDS for decades. Why now, eh?”
I don’t know; frankly, I hadn’t heard that it was happening at all. Do you have a couple of articles where I might learn more? I know nothing about Utah politics. If they are finally cracking down, that would be nothing but a good thing.
“But I do think the Mormon vote and the public reputation of Mormons in general are in extraordinary focus right now.”
I agree. It has been interesting, as a Mormon, to be a part of that focus. If Romney wins the nomination, it will only intensify exponentially. Quite a nudge out of one’s comfort zone!
I’ve never met a Mormon I didn’t like - all very sweet people, good family people. There are many Mormons in my neighborhood. But I think the Mormon church, maintains more control over it’s members than other churches do. And that bothers me a bit.
“If Romney gets the nomination, the hounds of hell (meaning the Clinton machine) will be set loose on him through the mainstream media and the Republicans will go down in flames, White House, House and Senate.”
I really think this is alarmist. Don’t generalize your negative perspective of the LDS Church to the populace in general - most people are pretty unthreatened, even admiring, of the LDS Church, even if they disagree on theological grounds.
If the Clintons and MSM go after Romney on the basis of religion, they will be walking on a shaking tightrope. I give it ten-to-one odds it’ll backfire.
In any case, even if you’re right, what makes you think that the same tactics won’t be applied, regardless of who is the nominee? The difference is, releasing Giuliani’s “drag” pictures or publicizing McCain’s marriage troubles won’t backfire and result in a backlash against the Clintons. From that perspective, Romney becomes a much safer bet.
AAhhhhhhh, didn’t know that! Here in GA I don’t think there are all that many Mormons (Baptists, OTOH, are a whole other story! Every other church is a Baptist church of some sort or other! And us Catholics are the ones who are the recipients of the slanted glances! But I am used to it, it doesn’t bother me. And as it turns out, the Baptists are really nice people. Their churches are always where the Upward basketball and football teams are, so my son plays ball with them!), so I have never seen anything “anti-Mormon” at all. In fact, these threads are the first introduction I have ever had to the Mormon faith, other than commercials for a free BOM on TV. Maybe you might want to consider relocation :-)
“That guy who tried to Mormon-bash Romney down in the South a while back clearly repelled all the other Baptists and evangelical types in the room. Romney handled it quite gracefully.”
That’s an excellent example of what I’m talking about. Nobody else has dared try the same tactic again since that incident. It did nothing but give Romney face time in the media and a chance to appear “presidential.”
“FARMS and FAIR are not official sites, or haven’t you been notified?”
This is true, but they’re still Mormons, doing outside research. They are not speaking for the Church, but it still demonstrates my point that the LDS Church “allows” us to read anything we darned well want.
The last I learn in math CC 48% is less than half so it is not more are enought to swing the tide!
“Who on that stage can come closest, in totality, to Reagan and with the potential for crossover appeal for a Reagan-sized landslide, large enough to bring us back to the majority in one or both house of Congress?”
I agree. I think Romney scares the pants off the MSM. That’s why we’re going to see a lot of hit-pieces such as the recent PBS documentary and the upcoming “Mountain Meadows Massacre” movie. The Boston Globe has been writing snide things about Romney for years.
Personally, that’s the kind of candidate I want on my side.
And, like you said, the hair doesn’t hurt.
“Salt Lake had better expect attacks via the libmedia arm of the Dim party.”
The LDS Church is quite experienced at dealing with our detractors; we’ve got going on two centuries of experience at it. I’m confident the Church will handle the whole thing quite gracefully.
As for individual members, well, we’ll see.
You would think that 48% Mormon population would be more than sufficient to swing the election. But it just wasn’t so. I suspect quite a few Mormons voted for Rocky Andersen. I would also suspect that more than a majority of Mormons in his State voted for Harry Reid. Look what THAT got us.
So now, Mormons want us to trust them that Romney is conservative when every indication points to the fact that he is not. He is a flipper, who has backed abortion rights, gun rights restrictions, and gay rights.
I will never vote for Romney even if he IS the Republican nominee. I guess we’ll just have to wait and see how this all plays out. I also did not vote for about 1/2 the Mormons who were running in Utah for political office - of course that half that I didn't vote for were Democrats.
Of course Mormons make Utah conservative! Just as Southern Baptists and other Evangelists make the South conservative!
If a predominantly conservative group of people makes up half an area’s population, then they are making that area more conservative. It’s math.
How is it that we are talking past each other on this?
The simple fact of the matter is that Mormonism embraces and nourishes the principles of Conservatism, just like any other Christian group does.
You’re on the same threads, too. What are you trying to divine from the stars, as to this significance?
By your reasoning then Baptists would also make Utah more conservative.
I’d depend rather more on the Baptists. They don’t go around spouting if we don’t support their candidate, then they’re leaving and taking home their ball.
This ‘threat’ that if we don’t support Romney, the Mormons will abandon conservativism is very disturbing.
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