They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today

Saundra Duffy

[sevenbak]

Re: Other LDS office-holders and their track record vs. a potential LDS president, I've already explained that in detail on this thread. You'll have to go to posts #251, #280, and #290, where I do make distinctions between the two.

Yes and I followed with the Mike Leavitt and others. Did you get your SS check yet?

[Colofornian]

Ah, but he saw Jesus didn't he? Standing right there on the right hand of God, the two of them looking down at Stephen. Perhaps this is not the best reference for you to use ina settign like this, unless you want to discuss the trinity belief vs. the LDS belief of a separate Father and Son.

You and other LDS are the ones hung up on the Body issue, despite Jesus' clear teaching that "God is spirit" (John 4:24). The fact that Stephen could see both Father and Son together has never been an issue to the historic Christian church. It's only an issue to folks whose founder is famous for his "strange God anyhow" statement as he probably tried to imagine the Father's head stuck onto Jesus' neck with each operating a limb...etc.

Since the Father has no physical body, yet can manifest Himself, there's no issue at all of two manifestations, who are still one. I am one with my wife. We're still two manifestations. So what?

[Colofornian]

Yes and I followed with the Mike Leavitt and others. Did you get your SS check yet?

What???

[Manic_Episode]

If recognizing a lie is bigotry count me in.

[sevenbak]

Sure he’s a spirit, but he’s also a glorified resurrected being.

Luke 24:39
Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.I am one with my wife. We're still two manifestations. So what?

Finally something we can agree on, (in addition to the apostacy thing) he said the same thing in his prayer to the father for His apostles:

John 17:21 That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us:

[Colofornian]

D&C 123:2 For there are many yet on the earth among all sects, parties, and denominations, who are blinded by the subtle craftiness of men, whereby they lie in wait to deceive, and who are only kept from the truth because they know not where to find it—

Okay, again, we can agree just based upon the parable of the wheat and the tares along w/Matt 25:1-10 that there's going to be folks in perhaps most churches who think they are heaven-bound, and there's a surprise waiting them. So the first part of that D&C statement I don't have heartburn with...but then to go on and claim that "they lie in wait to deceive" is simply one of Joseph's "clear the deck" phrases...throw enough mud at every church member of 1830 America and the rest of the world, and you're bound to hit some folks...but sorely miss most.

Listen, why didn't you just go to that BoM passage where Joe says there's only two churches...Christ's church and then the devil's church.

Tell you what. Why don't you have the "Elect Mitt Committee" do a TV ad where he cites this verse. He could say: "I believe in the Book of Mormon. For example...[cits verse]. My church is the Church of Jesus Christ. If you don't belong to it, guess who you belong to?"

[Colofornian]

he’s also a glorified resurrected being.

Listen, the resurrection of JC is the heart of the gospel (see 1 Cor. 15). If the Father was also resurrected, it, too would be the heart of the gospel.

D&C constantly refers to the BoM being "the fullness of the everlasting gospel."

So we know all about the father's resurrection in the BoM, right, since it's the full gospel, and since it's the heart of the gospel? Right? Wrong! Not a word in the Book of Mormon.

[Polybius]

However, please be aware that there is much more to the story of the early Mormons. It is interesting that of the hundreds of bizarre cults running around America at the time, only the Mormons provoked massive popular resistance.

Well, there were reasons for all of that but that was then and this is now.

Mountain Meadows Massacre

[sevenbak]

Yes and I followed with the Mike Leavitt and others. Did you get your SS check yet? What???

Different poster:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1828301/posts?page=345#345

[Colofornian]

I’ll check in tomorrow...talk w/you later

[sevenbak]

So do you really believe that all Churches that preach Christ all do it out of the love of Christ and that no one (besides us evil Mormons of course) does it to deceive men for money or other reasons?

[sevenbak]

Tell you what. Why don't you have the "Elect Mitt Committee" do a TV ad where he cites this verse. He could say: "I believe in the Book of Mormon. For example...[cits verse]. My church is the Church of Jesus Christ. If you don't belong to it, guess who you belong to?"

That's the last thing he would do, but you seem to think it's the first thing he would do.

[sevenbak]

Listen, the resurrection of JC is the heart of the gospel (see 1 Cor. 15). If the Father was also resurrected, it, too would be the heart of the gospel.

Wait, please explain something to me. I really want to know, and I'm tired of fighting, it does neither of us any good, and certainly doesn't' invite a spirit of learning and understanding.

Please explain this for me. If your belief is that the Father and the Son are one (not in unity but form and being), then why wouldn't the Father have that same Body that Jesus was resurrected with? He didn't discard it after ascending to heaven. The angels attending His ascension said "this same Jesus would come in like manner"

[Twink]

Exactly. I wouldn’t vote for a candidate just because he’s Catholic or this or that.

I’ve learned quite a bit on this forum and the more I read about Mitt from his supporters is enough to make me question a vote I’d possibly cast for him. One poster gave me an in-depth opinion, not based on him being a Mormon, but on his record and his lifestyle and on the issues that matter to me. I’ll go with that and everything else I can find on him and not on what people of his faith call anyone who questions the faith, bigots.

I’d never vote for someone just because he was a member of a certain religious affiliation - heck, that would mean I would have voted for John Kerry because he claimed to be a Catholic and that didn’t happen.

[GOP_Raider]

Oh good! I want to see how many people get the joke...:) It’s not much fun if I have to explain it every time.

[Choose Ye This Day]

I wish he were more Mormon as well.

I am LDS, and he just seems too watered down at times.

[FastCoyote]

"My Ward is the best Ward in the whole wide world. We are small and poor but we are rich in the Spirit and in love. You seem to make fun of our testimonies. I have a testimony of the truthfulness of my Church and the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

The Missionaries came over today and helped my husband paint the garage. Those fine young men deserve our respect. I don’t like it when people put them down. I am grateful for their service, love and sacrifice."

I would be the last to say there are no positive elements to the Mormon way of life. But I have also "witnessed" many corrosive effects (and why should Mormon "witnesses" be any more important than "gentile witnesses" including myself and others who have noted the same things? Unless of course you believe Mormons are SUPERIOR to other Christians?????????????).

Generically, what I have witnessed multiple times in business and political situations is that Mormons are clannish and nepotistic within the Church, believing they have a greater right to money and power than others (getting their planet early). One example is Harry Reid. Another was a Temple Mormon I was involved with in a deal worth thirty million, who I am now about to report to the IRS for tax evasion. Another tried to trump up fraud charges against a CPA I know to hide embezzlement within a company. My boss is a Jack Mormon atheist who left the church because of inconsistencies. Then there is Joseph Smith himself and his Kirtland bank. I have more examples, but you get the idea - I have no trust of Mormons in positions of power.

These types of problems haven't been noted only by me, but also by a number of people on this very thread who lived in predominantly Mormon communities. They stem not from the everyday Mormon concepts of clean living, but from doctrinal problems deep within the theology that separates Mormons distinctly from Christian Churches. If you were able to excise the Joseph Smith prophecies from your church, becoming only a Christian Denomination, you would have a body with commendable attributes and I would applaud you. But I suspect that will not happen.

Here is where you will call me a bigot for not putting Mormons on an equal footing with everyone else. But that is sad logic indeed because your Religion is founded at its core on the idea that every other Christian and Jew is an apostate going to hell ( see here: http://www.mrm.org/topics/rebuttals-rejoinders/response-latter-day-saints-who-say-we-never-criticize-christian-churches ) In other words, your religion is verrrry bigoted against Gentiles.

So, I am very sorry that your religion is founded on demonstrably false chicanery by Joseph Smith, but the documentation is quite irrefutable. As phony as a $3 dollar bill signed by Joseph Smith, one might say.

I am also sorry that many Christians and Jews, myself included, will not vote for Mitt Romney because we view these doctrinal problems as rising well beyond the level of petty squabbling to the point where our worldviews are disjoint. But that is the reality of the situation and it would not be truthful to deny what is as clear as day. I will never vote for someone who believes they are on the path to becoming God, and this is just a stepping stone.

[FastCoyote]

[”As a Roman Catholic, I find it appalling that some people would not vote for Romney simply because he’s Mormon”

Me too. I so agree with you.]

What about if he were a Muslim, or a Satanist, or a Santerian, or a pacifist Bhuddist, or a nihilist atheist, or a Wiccan, or a Scientologist, or believed himself God incarnate? Is there any point at all where you would consider religion a disqualifier? Or are your moral convictions the consistency of the Pillsbury Doughboy?

[JRochelle]

I hope you read the complete thead and realize that your statement of preachers railing against Mormonism isn’t true. I don’t doubt that it has happened. BUt I suspect it happens very rarely. Maybe it happens more often in places like Utah.

I’m not the only one who thinks you are lying.

Only once can I recall hearing a preacher speak ill of another faith. He mocked the Baptists for believing ‘once saved, always saved.’

You suffer from an extreme case of victimhooditis. You come across to me as someone who has her faith in her church strengthed by percieved persecution. Thats just sad.

I doubt most members in my church even know any mormons or know anything about their faith. I’ve said it before, I don’t even know of any LDS church in the area where I live.

I knew almost nothing of Mormonism until I joined FR. I have read up on it and have found it very interesting and similar in some ways to the church I was born into. Those people too believe that whenever they are mistreated or someone says something about them that is unkind, it must mean that they are on the right course.

[George W. Bush]

I think you're overstating your grievances. Certainly, Romney has no intention of playing a victim card or emphasizing (or hiding) his Mormonism.

You overestimate Dobson's influence. Robertson is done and needs to be wheeled off the stage.

Richard Land, probably the single most influential Southern Baptist on political matters, has said a number of positive things about Romney and indicated he could vote for Romney and that Mormonism doesn't break any deal.

I don't think the debate serves the interest of electing Romney well. I'd also note that there is quite a lot about Mormon history and some of its leaders that you choose to ignore.

In general, Mormons would be doing Romney a big favor by not making his candidacy about Mormonism. If you succeed in making him "the Mormon candidate", he'll lose. But he can win if he is "a candidate who happens to be Mormon".

Beyond all that, given that Mormons are only 1.6% of the population but represent about 5% in Congress, the idea that there is some unassailable anti-Mormon bigotry is kind of silly.

If Mitt doesn't make it about Mormonism, then it's not about Mormonism. Maybe you should consider whether you're helping him or hurting him. There is, you know, a number of anecdotes in science about how a given scientist stated that he would greatly prefer to have his theory attacked by his most vocal scientific opponent than defended by his greatest amateur fan.

You're really not doing Mitt any favors here.