Posted on 05/04/2007 5:46:36 AM PDT by Saundra Duffy
It is soooo sad. This need to use the same language as Christians when in fact you mean something entirely different.
Language is very clear CC it is the MC you have revised the definition of words!
I real lauguge Father and Son are 2 seperate beings!
and the Holy "Ghost" makes 3 seperate beings!
the MC have change Father & Son as the same enity!
You count like this 1+1+1=1
When in real math 1+1+1=3
Cheers!
Perhaps you would like to take a shot at answering the question posed in post #2900. Take your time, Resty, it isn’t a hard question. Who Raised Jesus From the Dead?
If you believe all those lies about Joseph Smith, you should hear the ones they said about our Jesus . . . and the same lies are still being told today.
They say Jesus is a charleton, a liar, cheater, a con man, a false prophet. They say Jesus is from his father the devil and a blasphemer. They say Jesus had sex with Mary Madgeline.
One of the Savior’s own disciples turned against him - and our Lord has suffered rejection by so many it is unimaginable. And you are surprised that Joseph Smith had enemies in the Church?
Just because you read stuff other people said about Joseph Smith, that doesn’t make it true.
It isn’t Christian. Your beliefs are not Christian. When you post your testimony in such a way it misleads people into thinking that you believe Jesus is Jehovah/Savior in the same way that they believe.
Saundra, you were Christian once, and I was Mormon. We both know that they are not the same belief. The nature of God is different, the meaning of salvation is different, the requirements to live with God are different. Words have different meanings. When I read your posts, it reminds me of the way in which I said those words - - I think honesty would dictate the definitions of terms be spelled out.
You do not believe Jesus is God. You do not believe the Father is God. You do not believe the Holy Spirit is God. You believe that three separate personages make up the Godhood. I’m simply pointing that out.
Who raised Jesus from the dead? Heavenly Father, who else? I like the part about how Jesus descended into Hell and grabbed the keys of death, hell and the grave. Yahoo! The keys . . . ring a bell?
Sorry that was a typo.
That is so funny when you tell me what you think I believe. And then you tell me I don’t really believe what I believe. I think that’s funny.
This just in, the official word from my Church:
Jesus Christ
Jesus Christ is the Only Begotten Son of God the Father in the flesh. He was the Creator, He is our Savior, and He will be our Judge. Under the direction of our Heavenly Father, Jesus Christ created the earth. Through His suffering in the Garden of Gethsemane and by giving His life on the cross—that is, by performing the Atonement—Jesus Christ saves us from our sins as we follow Him. Through His Resurrection, Jesus Christ saves us from physical death. Because He overcame death, we will all be given the gift of resurrection.
We believe that through the Atonement of Christ, all mankind may be saved, by obedience to the laws and ordinances of the Gospel" (Articles of Faith 1:3).
Through Christ's atonement and our own obedience to the laws and ordinances.
Would you mind telling our reading audience exactly what that entails precisely? What are the laws and ordinances? How do you know when you've been obedient?
John 5
19 Then answered Jesus and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel.
21 For as the Father raiseth up the dead, and quickeneth them; even so the Son quickeneth whom he will.
22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
23 That all men should honour the Son, even as they honour the Father. He that honoureth not the Son honoureth not the Father which hath sent him.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.
25 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The hour is coming, and now is, when the dead shall hear the voice of the Son of God: and they that hear shall live.
26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.
28 Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear his voice,
29 And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation.
30 I can of mine own self do nothing: as I hear, I judge: and my judgment is just; because I seek not mine own will, but the will of the Father which hath sent me.
31 >u>If I bear witness of myself, my witness is not true.
Saundra, was Jesus lying when He said that if they destroyed His body He would raise it up in three days? Who IS Jesus, Saundra?
I didn’t think you could answer that simple syllogism. But your dodging was in your usual obfuscatory style. At least Saundra tried to answer more directly.
What is your problem besides not liking the answer!
Jesus makes it very clear through out John that Jesus does the will of his Father in Heaven and all the glory is to go to His Father!
Jesus makes very clear in John 20-
16 Jesus saith unto her, Mary. She turned herself, and saith unto him, Rabboni; which is to say, Master.
17 Jesus saith unto her, Touch me not; for I am not yet ascended to my Father: but go to my brethren, and say unto them,
I ascend unto MY Father, and YOUR Father; and to MY God, and YOUR God.
Peace be with you, Resty.
“If you believe all those lies about Joseph Smith, you should hear the ones they said about our Jesus . . . and the same lies are still being told today.”
I have never heard anyone say (much less have in writing) that Jesus was a fornicator. Even you cannot deny Joseph Smith slept with the wives of other men.
I have never heard Jesus called a money changer, nor have I ever seen his signature on a $3 bill, yet you deny what is out in the open.
I have never heard it said that Jesus tried to kill another human being, even his inquisitors. The testimony of the one survivor of Joseph’s killing says Joseph pulled the trigger six times on the 6 barrel pistol that had been smuggled into the jail, hitting three people.
I have never heard that Jesus got his testimony by looking through a seer stone pulled from a well. Yet you delight in your religion being the result of a parlor trickster’s rantings.
I’ve never heard Jesus called “General”, as though he was trying to set himself up for real as an alternate Caesar, but Joseph Smith’s friends called him General and he led a Mormon militia.
I never heard Jesus was under investigation for falsely imprisoning others, yet these cases were before the courts before Joseph Smith died.
I have never heard that Jesus wore magic garments to ward off evil. I have never heard that Jesus had magic handshakes and claimed he had to baptize the dead.
In short, Joseph Smith is a fraud in so many documented ways, that I can no longer assume Mormons practice their faith in ignorance of this history, but do so in open complicity with one overt false prophet. Such purposeful blindness can only lead to bad endings for a Romney presidency.
bookmark
"...Jehovah he is Elohim; there is none else beside him." -
Deuteronomy 4:35
"Know that Jehovah he is Elohim; it is he that hath made us, and not we ourselves; we are his people, and the sheep of his pasture."
Psalm 100:3
Saundra, do you believe that Jehovah is the Most High?
Abram said to the king of Sodom, "I have sworn to Jehovah God Most High, possessor of heaven and earth..."
Genesis 14:22"I will give thanks to Jehovah according to His righteousness And will sing praise to the name of Jehovah Most High."
Psalm 7:17
Saundra, do you ever pray directly TO Jesus?
And they went on stoning Stephen as he called upon the Lord and said, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit!" And falling on his knees, he cried out with a loud voice, "Lord, do not hold this sin against them!" And having said this, he fell asleep."
Acts 7:54-60"...pray to Jehovah..."
Jeremiah 29:7"Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. And I will be found by you, declares Jehovah..."
Jeremiah 29:11"What other nation is so great as to have their gods near them the way Jehovah our God is near us whenever we pray to Him?"
Deutronomy 4:7
Saundra, are you ashamed to come to Jesus and pray to Him?
Cordially,
You count only like this 1+1+1=3 when that is only half of the divine formula. (The other portion is 1x1x1=1)
What? Do you think that God as the Author & Source of Math is only a God of Addition? He is not also the Alpha and Omega of Multiplication?
Yes, our God is a 3-Personage God (1+1+1=3). But he's also a 3-in-1 Personage God (1x1x1=1)
To put it another way, our God is three "Who's" in one "What." Who is God? Father, Son, and Spirit. What is God? ONE GOD.
We see examples of our 3-in-1 God in everyday life. A room, for example, is composed of 3 dimensions--height, width, and depth. Yet it remains one room. Subtract a room's height, and you hae collapsed the room: It ceases to be one.
LDS collapse our God--making Him out to be "no god."
Water is revealed in natural water form, yet water is also more concrete in form like ice [like the Son of God was more "concrete" in appearance to us] as well as more elusive--like vapor [like the Holy Spirit]. Ice=water. Steam = water. Water=water. Three snapshots of the exact same substance.
If you want an excellent biblical snapshot of our concentrated God, look at Col. 2:9: "For in Christ all the fullness of the Deity lives in bodily form." May I suggest that all do an online search using Col. 2:9 in conjunction with the word "volume." (volume being tied to a formula of multiplication). You'll find some interesting info.
I'm sure some Catholics do say that. We don't see one of the Popes going around, like Ezra Taft Benson, emphasizing "14 Fundamentals of the Pope." You'll find that in American circles, there's more of an emphasis on what the real meaning of priests were in the OT: Man's rep before God--an intercessor--and not as much the reverse of that--God's rep before men.
We actually believe that Gordon B. Hinckley (LDS living Prophet) has this authority...He implores people to obey the Commandments and to love one another. What a monster.
Let me ask you a question: Do you know exactly how many people the Law of Moses saved?
Jesus Christ is my Savior and Redeemer and the Great Jehovah of the Old Testament. It was Heavenly Father’s plan to send His Son Jesus Christ to die for our sins to save us. The Holy Ghost tells me it’s true. [SD]
OK. All the above sounds very "spiritual." But let me call to mind two scriptures: Jeremiah tells us that "the heart is deceitful above all things" (Jer 17:9). Proverbs adds that "There is a way which seemeth right unto a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death (Prov. 14:12). There are times I have convinced myself that it was God the Holy Spirit confirming something when it was my own heart doin' the talkin'.
There are times when we need a more objective standard that merges both that which is objective coupled with the Holy Ghost, and that is the Bible. (The Holy Ghost is its very author (2 Peter 1:20-21).
I am glad that you say, Tanty, Every word, every doctrine is subject to the veto of the Holy Ghost for scripture says "Prove (test) all things; hold fast to that which is good (1 Th. 5:21).
The very "burning bosom" confirmation LDS have moved into the front burner of their spiritual life is based upon a partial truth: Look at Luke 24:32. We see there that the hearts of 2 disciples "burned" WHILE JESUS TALKED TO THEM AND WHILE HE OPENED THE SCRIPTURES TO THEM. What can we learn from that?
Notice that it was the Godhead's Second Person, Jesus Christ, who was dealing with them primarily--not the third Person (the Holy Ghost). Yet it WAS the Holy Ghost who inspired the objective standard that Jesus utilized--"the Scriptures." Jesus gave an exposition of the Scriptures. They were not convinced by the Holy Ghost apart from the Scriptures.
Finally, we must be "noble" Christians. We must be like the Bereans of Acts 17:11: "These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so." (Acts 17:11)
Listen: I think you (Tantiboh) mentioned on a previous post that you considered my "judgment" was at least worth considering. I thank you for that. But my judgment is worthless apart from the foundation from where it comes. Yes, the Holy Spirit guides me often in what to say; but the true nobility (or lack of it) lies in the spirit of every poster and lurker. Nobody is to take my posts at face value; they are to do what the Bereans did: search the scriptures to see if what is said is true.
Every revelation of God is to be judged by the former revelational standard. That is the Scripture given to us by Luke, who was a disciple with Jesus (Acts 17:11-12). We cannot veer from that without heading off the spiritual route marked out for us.
So, let's put this into practice:
Do your "inner testimonies" tell each of you that Joseph Smith saw the Father & Son in 1820?
Secondly does your "inner testimony" each tell you that Brigham Young was a true prophet?
Now we know Brigham said at one point: "I have never yet preached a sermon & sent it out to the children of men that they may not call Scripture" (JoD, vol. 13, p. 95)
So let's look at one of Brigham's sermons where he was very specifically discussing this first vision of Joseph's (he was not discussing any later heavenly visitations Joseph rec'd): "The Lord did not come with the armies of heaven,...But He did send His angel to this same obscure person, Joseph Smith jun., ...and informed him that he should not join any of the religious sects of the day, for they were all wrong;...(JoD, vol. 2, p. 171)
So? Well, if you "inner testimony" says that JS saw both the Father & the Son in 1820; and also that BY was a true prophet--but that BY indicates that JS only saw an angel & NOT the Father & Son in that first 1820 vision...then your inner testimony is contradictory. It would never pass muster in a court a law.
Do you really want to base your eternal future upon such shaky external testimonies as that from a 14 yo boy and upon a "prophet" who labeled every sermon was "Scripture."
I believe that you do believe in Jesus Christ as the Savior of the World, but I am told that when you die, the man of the house says if you can get to "heaven" which is your own planet, Is that not correct?
Saundra, Mormons are nice, family people, but Joseph Smith was NOT a good person from what I have read. If your religion IS Jesus based, it's a breakaway, started by a mere man in the 1800's. I'm sticking with the one started in 33 A.D. by Jesus when he gave the keys to the Kingdon to Peter.
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