They Shoot Mormons, Don't They? Religious Bigotry, alive and well today

Saundra Duffy

[arderkrag]

I'm all for mormon forest rangers, federal marshals, secret service agents, and even old Orin, since he can't do anything unilaterally. "We love 'em in their place-like shinin' shoes, bell-hoppin'..."

[Truth-Miner]

My shoe size before or after the kids came?
I have very large feet. My dad says my grandma had very large hands and feet. I usually wear mens 12 before the kids and 13/14 wide after the kids. Heels, pumps Never! I’m tall enough as it is. So you never know ya might be able to wear my shoes after all.

[sevenbak]

I’m a FredHead too, VP Slot with Romney. ;-)

I think this is why he’s waited so long, no need to spend that kind of dough, he’s just getting his name out there for VP.

[Colofornian]

More particularly, what is the name of the church you attend?

What? You got a plan you'll enact so that our church will become Ground Zero for LDS missionary activity? :) [If we can convert C; anybody could converted. :)]

Let's just say "Evangelical Protestant" based upon 1 Cor. 3: "For whereas there is among you...divisions, are ye not carnal, and walk as men? For while one saith, I am of Paul; and another, I am of Apollos; are ye not carnal? Who then is Paul, and who is Apollos, but ministers by whom ye believed, even as the Lord gave to every man...Therefore let no man glory in men: for all things are yours...and ye are Christ's..." (vv. 3-5, 21, 23)

If Paul was writing to the church today, he would ask: "Who then is Calvin? Who then is Wesley? And who is Luther? Who is Knox? Who is the Pope?"

[And just as the historic church may need an adjustment as to how they see themselves, I would suggest LDS stop singing "Praise to the Man"--a hymn praising JoeSmith. God doesn't like competing with your "average Joe"]

I won't be defined by whatever minister men glory in. And those men never named churches after themselves, either.

[Colofornian]

Mormons were driven from Missouri because they favored freeing the slaves. It was an ugly time in our country, but it was the law. Your misrepresentation is absolutely unconscionable!

Uh. Whatever happened to: "Then Peter and the other apostles answered [after being "commanded" that they not teach in Jesus' name] and said, We ought to obey God rather than men?" (Acts 5:29)

So the will of slaveowners trumps the will of God that the Gospel go to slaves? Is that what you're telling me with a straight face?

So what if the LDS favored freeing slaves back in its Mizzou days? What does it matter, REALLY, if you personally favored freeing slaves' bodies but disfavored freeing their souls? Repent of such nonsense!!!

[Colofornian]

Yes or no will suffice: Does an infant who dies unbaptized go to hell? Yes or no

What? Am I a God who issue edicts as to who goes to hell? (Did God die & vacate His throne?) ["Hey, you, yeah, you, the baby with the motormouth. Hell's flames are knocking on your door."]

Time for you to ask serious questions about your faith.

As for me, I did answer: 2 Sam. 12:23 shows that David expected to go where his infant son goes. As for you, you wouldn't then answer the implied question. If LDS believe that murderers aren't saved, then this whole thing is left open-ended for them. Hummmm...is David in hell? Here Luke says David was a "man after mine own heart" and was one who "shall fulfil ALL my will" (Acts 13:22) and Mormon theology places him and Moses smack dab in the middle of hell?

Does an individual who does not confess the name of Christ while in this life, though he has never heard or been taught about Jesus Christ, go to hell? Yes or no

You mean does an "ungodly" and "unrighteous" individual (Rom. 1:18) who suppresses the truth (Rom. 1:18) who rejects the evident natural revelation of God (Rom. 1:20) & therefore did not glorify Him (Rom. 1:21) nor give Him thanks (Rom. 1:21) but instead followed a foolish heart & empty fantasies (Rom. 1:21-22)...does such a person who over his entire lifetime rejects whatever light God has given him go to hell? Well, what does it mean then when Paul says that against an above person "The wrath of God is revealed from heaven...?" (A picnic?)

You know, I don't understand why LDS believe in a baptism by proxy (2nd chance) when folks have second and third and fourth and fifth, etc. chances throughout their entire lives. Every day is a new chance to receive God's mercy and grace! Why does the LDS baptism by proxy trump Christ's death on the cross by proxy?

What is so magical about

(A) a baptism by proxy & then the gospel offered to that person in spirit prison; versus

(B) Jesus dying on the cross by proxy & then the "narrow" gospel offered to that person in bondage?

It seems to me there are some parallels there--unnecessary duplication. And when you have unnecessary duplication, that is spiritual bureaucracy that needs to be eliminated.

(There. You got a sermon, anyway :) )

[Colofornian]

The YEAH, yeah, yeah really does not help your argument, not that you have made any at this point.

Hey, don't knock it til you've tried it. The Beatles made a lot of $ off of that line. :)

[Colofornian]

You are wrong about what we believe, I understand you think we believe that, but you couldn’t be more wrong. Stop telling us what we believe, OK? And for the record since you have been told you are interpreting our beliefs incorrectly, to continue to say what you have been told is wrong is to lie.

LDS prophets can't even agree with each other, let alone LDS scriptures agreeing with each other. So to act like there is one authoritative source for "LDS Belief Central" and that you're the "Captain" that steers the LDS ship away from all iceberg lies is just a little wee bit much authority you've given yourself.

[DelphiUser]

The YEAH, yeah, yeah really does not help your argument, not that you have made any at this point.

Hey, don't knock it til you've tried it. The Beatles made a lot of $ off of that line. :)

LOL!

You know, you have a point there, but you have to admit, they had a better delivery than text on a screen (grin)

[DanielLongo]

So, yes, you believe the infant goes to hell and yes you believe the person who never heard of Jesus Christ, through no fault of their own goes to hell.

Now, let's try again with the second set of questions:

Do you go to church?

If so, what is the name of your church?

Is it a part of any established Christian denomination?

If so, what is the name of that denomination?

I would like to know so I can do some research and better understand what your doctrines are that we might have a more cogent conversation. These are very simple questions. You are obviously familiar with the scriptures.

[DanielLongo]

What of the person who lives in a remote part of the world (ie the far reaches of China or Africa or South America) and never learns the Gospel? They are never taught about or receive the word of God, as to the scriptures, and never are baptized or confess the name of Christ, only because the truth was never given to them. By what means comes their salvation? Or are they condemned? What does your faith teach you on this point?

[DelphiUser]

LDS prophets can't even agree with each other, let alone LDS scriptures agreeing with each other. So to act like there is one authoritative source for "LDS Belief Central" and that you're the "Captain" that steers the LDS ship away from all iceberg lies is just a little wee bit much authority you've given yourself.

OK, CF, lets see who (with an admitted limited sample here is closer to the truth of what Mormons believe.

I say that We moromns believe that God the father has more than two realtionships with us. Ia m only going to list two Here:
1.

As our father, we have a patrarchal realtionship that goes back well for further than we can comprehend, bu that's ok because he is still our Father and needs on geneology sheet to have a father's authority over us.

2.

As our creator he has direct and immediate authority over us his creation. For he has direct authority over all his creations for they are his.

CF says:

We have on relationship that goes back "Generations" and that is where God's authority comes from and that we can "Appeal" any of his decisions endlessly up a "Cahin of Command"

Would you guys do me the favor of voting, who is more in agreement with Mormn beliefs, DU, or CF.

This vote is only for Mormns to take as we are trying to find out who actually understands what Mormons believe, me, or CF

Let the survey begin!

[MHGinTN]

I have two different sized feet because of polio at age two.

[Colofornian]

So, yes, you believe the infant goes to hell and yes you believe the person who never heard of Jesus Christ, through no fault of their own goes to hell.

(He said, nailing words to my tongue and lips to fashion and shape as he pleases)

[Colofornian]

Do you go to church?

Yes and no. By your def, "yes." By my "def," no. In other words, we don't "go" to something we are.

The NT church, in case you have noticed, is people. It's not only an institution. If a fire took out our local facility, we'd still be the church. If we were all put in jail, we'd still be the church.

As for "cogent" conversations, you've already shown, by fashioning words in my mouth, that perhaps you're "on your way" to someday engaging in such convos. You're not yet there; so I'll respectfully decline your offer of cogency.

And no, I am not part of some "independent" church; nor is it a cult. I am part of the church-at-large. The church universal. The one body of Christ. Research away (it's quite large; it's diverse; it's gonna take you a "few" years to research it).

[VegasBaby]

I agree with DelphiUser’s statements regarding our relationship with God, as I’ve been taught that God is the ultimate authority. I’ve never once been taught that I nor any man could “appeal” God’s decisions.

[Muzzle_em]

Who was the Unitarian president?

[Colofornian]

What of the person who lives in a remote part of the world (ie the far reaches of China or Africa or South America) and never learns the Gospel? They are never taught about or receive the word of God, as to the scriptures, and never are baptized or confess the name of Christ, only because the truth was never given to them. By what means comes their salvation?

OK. You've never read Mt. 28:18-20 where Christ commissioned his disciples to go unto "ALL" the world? How about Romans 10 about folks being sent with the gospel?

Would you say we live in a "bigger" world than in Jesus' day, or have you actually been to DisneyWorld or DisneyLand and gone thru a certain ride that tells you how our world has actually shrunk...and traversing world-wide is a much more common actuality? (In other words, has not God been behind inventions that allow us to be so mobile?)

By what means comes their salvation?

Disciples (Mt 28). Preachers (Rom. 10) Missionaries. Books. Tapes. The Worldwide Internet. E-mails. Chat rooms.

You sound like you want to call all the LDS missionaries home and leave it up to the research genealogies & proxy folks to just "cover" them when they die.

You know, when I think of human-invented "back-up" methods of "salvation," I think of things like "abortion" as a "back-up" to "birth control."

[DelphiUser]

DanielLongo,
I understand the temptation to try to find out if CF’s religion has any skeletons in it’s closet. I advise against it.

I personally don’t want to know what CF’s denomination is, if I don’t know, it’s harder to be accused of bashing him. Also the temptation to do so would be there.

I have stated earlier on this thread, that I have not attacked anyone’s religion, and was accused of attacking Christians by quoting from the Catholic encyclopedia on line about the Trinity.

Clearly, they can quote (and even misquote) about specific doctrines of our church and they are “Searching for truth” and if we quote from an encyclopedia, we are attacking. With that level of a playing field, I do not want to know anyone else’s religion lest that knowledge be used against me as an argument that some logical thing I have said is now an attack against them.

IF you want to know, FM CF and then keep it between the two of you, OK?

[DelphiUser]

I cried because I had no shoes, until I met am n who had no feet.
So I took his shoes, because what is a man with no feet going to do with shoes anyway, so now I have shoes.

Also:

You should always walk a mile in someone’s shoes before you criticize them
because, then when you do criticize them, you are a mile away and you have their shoes.
This works best of rough terrain.(Grin)

With Big feet like that, how tall are you and how many kids did you have?

I am trying to picture my sister 5’2 with size 12 (in men’s) shoes. And I can only think of my kids (as toddlers) wearing my shoes LOL!

I seem to be entering a weird mood, better just lurk for a bit…