Posted on 05/03/2007 10:23:46 PM PDT by OrthodoxPresbyterian
DRUDGE REPORT
The Reagan Derby
Well, with 47,617 individual Votes recorded as of 12:55AM EST on 5/4/07, The Drudge Report has provided perhaps the most sweeping and comprehensive initial survey of viewer reaction to the first GOP Primary Debate at the Ronald Reagan Presidential Library.
The Results thus far:
With an optimistic, confident demeaner and a polished presentation, Mitt Romney decidedly overshadowed the erstwhile Front-Runner, Rudy Giuliani. Rudy's primary strength thus far has been his vast name recognition and the sheer momentum of his supposed "inevitability" -- and yet, in terms of viewer reaction, for him to be trailing (by double digits) a former Governor not widely known outside of Massachusetts until this election season demonstrates clear vulnerability on Giuliani's part.
However, the greatest source of comfort to Constitutionalist Conservatives has to be the tremendous upswell of support being registered by the former Leader of Ronald Reagan's Electoral Delegation from Texas, United States Congressman Ron Paul -- and that DESPITE receiving comparatively little "face time" from the debate organizers. With viewer reaction to the first GOP Primary Debate already placing Congressman Ron Paul solidly in third place, nine points ahead of his nearest rival and within five points of Giuliani himself, a tremendous opportunity exists for Ron Paul to establish widespread national Name Recognition and garner increasing support for his broadly-appreciated message of Individual Liberty and strictly-limited Government Power.
With the second GOP Primary Debate rapidly approaching, Conservatives can take heart in knowing that the Message of Reagan Republicanism still resonates when presented confidently and forthrightly --and that there's at least one GOP Candidate on the stage who has stood solidly for Reagan Republicanism for thirty years: RON PAUL.
He and Rudy are exact opposites on the 2nd Amendment and Abortion. Rudy is only good on WOT issues. There is no reason to win the WOT if everything goes to pot domestically. Just my HO.
That's an excellent point. If the GOP wants to have the backing of conservatives, they must rally support from conservative independents and third party activists who vote for candidates on position and record.
On the member poll, it was Romney 45%, Hunter 24%, Paul 12%.
That's still quite good, considering how early it is in the pre-primary season.
That tells me that a growing number of FReepers recognize that Paul successfully articulates conservative values and provided sound reasoning for his statements. A lesser number of that 12 % no doubt includes growing support for the Ron Paul's campaign for the presidency.
By the way, why did you chose "George W. Bush" as a handle, if I may ask?
For two reasons. First, it so annoyed the spreadeagled variety of Bushbots which was fun. There is another more practical reason as well.
"Christocracy". I like that.
I absolutely love your opening argument -- "I am neither ... I'm a Christocrat." Phenomenal quotation from Benjamin Rush, signer of the Declaration of Independence. I think that ALL Conservative Christians should be "Christocrats"; for we should all desire to see our own Nation's Laws based upon the Principles of Christ, in hopeful expectation of His Return.
HOWEVER, THAT BEING SAID: You lose me entirely when you attempt to jury-rig an alliance between a commitment to Christocracy and a determination to provide International Welfare (foreign aid) to the Socialist, Secularist, Christ-Rejecting and Christian-persecuting State of Modern Israel.
Now, mind you -- as far as Israel's "Legal Right to Exist" and the moral rectitude of her existential credentials, I'll stack my Zionist bonafides up against ANY FReeper on Free Republic. At the very least, I'm willing to claim that I've posted the single best-researched Zionist Vanity ever posted on Free Republic:
I remember, perhaps a decade ago when I lived in New York, splitting a bottle of Manischewitz kosher wine with my good friend M. Adelstein (an Israeli emigre to America and a veteran of the Six Day War), and asking him if he'd had to kill any Arabs in the War (at the time, I was young, brash, and stupid, and did not realize how impolite it is to ask a Soldier about the Killing he must perform in his thankless Duty).... Adelstein bowed his head a little, lowered his voice, and said in his thick Israeli accent: "Only three." I knew then that I sat in the presence of a true Zionist Warrior, and I felt very ashamed of myself: it was shameful enough for him, as a Human Being, to speak of Killing; and it was even more shameful for him, as an Israeli Soldier, to not have Killed enough in defense of his homeland. ("merely" a 3-to-1 ratio)
I changed the subject very quickly at that point. The rest of the afternoon went well enough; we were always friends.
GETTING BACK TO THE POINT, HOWEVER... You SAY that you are a "Christocrat" in ONE Breath, and then yet in the very NEXT breath you excoriate Ron Paul for opposing International Welfare (foreign aid) to the Secularist, Socialist, Anti-Christian State of Modern Israel (in which, he is certainly at least consistent; Ron Paul opposes Foreign Aid for ANY foreign government).
Well, bucko, I have two questions for you:
That fact is, what Israel needs is Christianity and Capitalism, spiritually and materially speaking. By supporting the Anti-Christ Socialist Israeli Government and supporting US Foreign Aid for Israel, your so-called "support for Israel" is morally equivalent to offering a cocaine-junkie a Satanic Bible and a big bag of Rock Cocaine.
You are CURSING Israel... and you're too shortsighted to even see it.
Ron Paul is Right.
Yea, I like Ron Paul too. I will not vote for Mitt.
While I am a free market capitalist, I believe there are damn few free markets around the globe. The US ain’t one and neither is Israel. I see a bit of it when I attend an auction. I saw some free markets in Korea, where negotiating with the shopkeeper would affect the price one paid.
Aside from that, however, I don’t really think the US corp welfare & indiv welfare climate is that different than Israel’s or Europe’s or Asia’s.
Therefore, my support for Israel has nothing to do with its socialist leanings, although one can only be befuddled by those who cling to political philosophies that attempted to exterminate them in pogroms, holocausts, and gulags. (Also, why do blacks cling to the Democratic Party of Personal and Economic slavery...just as baffling.)
In any case, the issue is whether the bible says a Jewish remnant is dear to the Lord and will be restored in a 1000 year reign on earth. This is not the forum to argue that, but I will point out that you and I disagree on that point. Therefore, the treatment of Israel is important to me for religious reasons. It is not to you...at least not for those same reasons.
So, in sum, you know why we support Israel, despite your not accepting it as part of your faith.
God wants me to.
Traditionally, the United States Federal Government is (according to the US Constitution) not supposed to be in the business of "defining religions" AT ALL.
Gosh, it's the First Amendment to the Constitution, and all. You would think that would tend to preclude Congress passing a Public Law to grant Hundreds of Billions of dollars in Military and Financial support to a Terrorist-Harboring Regime which Formally Establishes the Religion of Koranic Satanism as the Official Religion of the Iraqi State... wouldn't you think?
Oh, but I forgot... the Interventionist Nation-Builders Copy of the Declaration of Independence reads as follows:
And it's all okay, because any violation whatsoever of the Constitution is permissible in order to "defeat the terrorists", and it doesn't matter that the Iraqi Government is made up of self-confessed and even convicted Shi'ite terrorists, because right now we're fighting the Sunni terrorists, and so for right now the Shi'ite terrorists running the Iraqi Government are "OUR sons of bitches", because there's such a thing as a "GOOD terrorist"... right? right??
It is enough. I get it. I finally understand. Everything you say is totally, 100% True. Jesus Christ wants Christians to shut up and just accept it when the Federal Government takes our Monies and gives it to Anti-Christian Governments which institute Koranic Satanism as their Official Religion. It is God's Will, because George Bush says so.
O cruel, needless misunderstanding! O stubborn, self-willed exile from the loving breast! Two gin-scented tears trickle down the sides of my nose. But it is all right, everything is all right, the struggle is finished. I have won the victory over myself. I love Big Brother.
Good grief. Were you a drama major, by chance?
I see you are up to snuff on the NY Times version of the “quagmire” in Iraq. We are birthing a non-terrorist, allied state after overthrowing a terror supporting, declared enemy of the USA. Hard to grasp, I know.
Like I’ve always said, if Harry Browne had been President, we’d be brushing up on our Russian.
God DOES NOT want you to coercively STEAL MONEY from your neighbors in order to provide it to those who have "needs". Welfare is Welfare, International or not -- it's always THEFT.
Liberals call that "Charity". Conservative Bible-Believers, according to the Ten Commandments, call it THEFT.
God gave the Ten Commandments to Israel -- don't you think it applies to Israel?
Every Dollar granted to Israel on the basis of Unconstitutional THEFT is a Spiritual CURSE upon Israel. All those who support US Government Foreign Aid for Israel advocate a Candy-Coated Cancer upon her.
Woe to those who call Evil, "Good".
Wow.
The ruling Islamic Al Dawa Party of Iraq is suddenly "Non-Terrorist"?
Have they ever even apologized for Bombing the US Embassy in Kuwait and Mass-Murdering 241 United States Marines in Beirut? Since you're apparently willing to give them a pass -- did they at least send YOU flowers, or something?
Or does Neo-Conservative Nation-Building mean "Never having to say you're Sorry" -- even for 241 dead US Marines?
Oh, yeah, right -- they're our Sons of Bitches now. And there's such a thing as a "GOOD terrorist". George Bush says so, and it is therefore God's Will. I forgot.
Mea maxima culpa.
Since I’ve already demonstrated that the US is also socialist, then it would follow from your argument that I should likewise not support the USA.
The truth is that God has me supporting Israel despite some of their faults. Their economy is not the basis of the support. The basis is that I believe they are loved by God for the sake of His promises to many of their forebears.
While you don’t accept that interpretation, your position on the subject has no bearing on how I see it.
Oh, the dreaded, utterly meaningless “neocon” term. According to your nonsense, the 241 Marines did not belong in Lebanon in the first place. Just invading armies on a Roanld Reagan Neocon mission.
You can’t possibly be as ignorant as you are portraying yourself to be here. But take comfort in the fact that YOU, and you alone know what God wants the USA to do. Bush and Cheney and Rummy and Duncan Hunter and all of us who support the war against islamo-nazis and spreading a modicum of overdue freedom in that snake infested part of the world are just a bunch or darned satinists. Good thing you and Ron Paul are there to fix things.
Adios, partner.
You're smarter than that, X. This is unacceptable from you.
You know full well that you can Patriotically love and support the United States while at the same time utterly opposing Federal Government Welfare as both a hurtful Drain upon the Taxpayers and an enervating Curse upon the Recipients.
By the same measure, you know full well that you can Zionistically love and support Israel while at the same time utterly opposing Foreign Aid Welfare for being an Enervating Curse upon her Economy and opposing the Israeli Government's Anti-Christ anti-proselytism laws.
You've always been totally honest with me in all of our Calvinism-Arminian debates, even when we've disagreed. Don't start telling me now that you think WELFARE is GOOD for the Recipient.
Foreign Aid is a Curse upon Israel, as Welfare is a Curse upon the Recipient (check the Ten Commandments!); and all those who support US Foreign Aid for Israel, DO CURSE ISRAEL.
OP
Did I say that I support welfare? I thought I said that I did not support it, and that Israel’s economy is not the basis of my support.
Nonetheless, they are loved because of the fathers. That is God’s decision in my interpretation, and I prefer to align with it.
Now, if you were to ask me if I support some kind of Pax Americana, I’d have to admit that I do....based on influence and success, and not upon guns. Although, guns are often necessary to protect one’s interests and people.
You're right -- I don't think those 241 US Marines did belong in Lebanon. The US has no national interest in trying to referee Arabic Civil Wars. None.
The difference between you and me is, you CELEBRATE when their Islamic Al-Dawa Murderers take power in Iraq, because they're "OUR" Sons of Bitches now, and you say we should send these Murdering Terrorist Scum Hundreds of Billions of Dollars in Military and Financial support. Islamic Al-Dawa is Pissing on the Graves of the 241 US Marines they Mass-Murdered in Lebanon, and you don't care -- because the Iraqi's "democratically elected" them to power NOW, and that somehow makes it "all better" in your eyes.
Whereas I say screw 'em all... There's no such thing as a "Good Terrorist".
Well, that's all very interesting, but I didn't ask if you supported "some kind of Pax Americana" as some sort of interesting theoretical Ideal or whatever. Any question of Morality always comes down to Individual Cases. (At least, that's what a Deontologicial Ethicist like myself believes, against the ultimately amoral precepts of Consequentialist Ethics).
What I AM basically asking is THIS:
Well? What do you think?
Your arguments are shaky on both logical and also on Scriptural grounds.
Not one of the Ten Commandments pronounces a curse on someone who receives assistance from their neighbor.
The Bible nowhere characterizes assisting Israel as cursing Israel.
And, of course, logically our military aid to Israel is not theft.
Our existing tax laws, despite the theories of various unbalanced cranks, are entirely consitutional and were passed into law by the Constitutionally-authorized representatives of the American people. Therefore the tax receipts generated by this process cannot be characterized as theft.
The budgetary decision to give Israel military assistance is likewise passed into law by the Constitutionally-authorized representatives of the American people. It is a free gift of the American people for the purpose of strengthening a beloved ally.
Characterizing those who accept this gift as "thieves" and those who give it as "cursers" of God's chosen people, is nothing but idiotic shrillness for idiotic shrillness' sake.
I honestly never imagined that you could possibly be that obtuse.
I vastly underestimated your capacity for abject stupidity.
This entire argument has NOTHING to do with "someone who receives assistance from their neighbor" and EVERYTHING to with Caesar, the Power of the State, FORCING someone to GIVE assistance to their Neighbor (according to State Dictates).
Therefore, you must perform some Homework before you are allowed to speak to me anymore. In the first place, you must read Matthew 22. In the second place, you must read Romans 13.
In the third place, you must read Saint Augustine's "City of God", "Confessions", and "Enchiridion". This will be followed by the First Part of Thomas Aquinas Summa Theologica, particularly "Man (Spirit and Matter)" and "The Government of Creatures". This will thereafter be followed by at least the Fourth Book of John Calvin's Institutes of the Christian Religion, with particular emphasis on Chapter 20, "On Civil Government".
A little education in the tradition and development of English Common Law wouldn't hurt you either; but if we start from the Bible and move outward through the Theologians, there may perhaps be at least some hope for you.
ONCE you have read all the essays which I have recommended, digested them, and attained an ability to speak about them conversantly -- THEN you are permitted to debate me as an equal.
Until that time, you are just wasting my time.
That was no debate.
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