Posted on 04/21/2007 11:58:20 AM PDT by calcowgirl
DES MOINES, April 16 --Rudolph W. Giuliani is a long way from Ellis Island.
A decade ago, as mayor of New York, Mr. Giuliani used that historic backdrop to champion the cause of immigrants, calling attacks on people who came here legally a blow to “the heart and soul of America.” And from City Hall he often defended illegal immigrants, ordering city workers not to deny them benefits and advocating measures to ease their path to citizenship.
But now he is running for president, and the politics of immigration in the post-9/11 world is vastly different, with the issue splitting the Republican Party and voters peppering Mr. Giuliani on the campaign trail with questions about his current thinking. Perhaps more than any other candidate, Mr. Giuliani has a record on immigration with the potential to complicate his bid for the nomination.
In contrast to his years as mayor, when he fought federal efforts to curtail public hospital or educational services to illegal immigrants, he now talks of penalties for people here illegally and requirements for them to wait at the back of the line. And while he once pushed policies like providing schooling for the children of illegal immigrants by saying, “The reality is that they are here, and they’re going to remain here,” now he emphasizes denying amnesty.
(snip)
Mr. Giuliani’s approach is similar to the one proposed by President Bush, advocating an orderly flow of immigrants by providing a clear path to citizenship and thereby easing the pressure at the border.
Like Mr. Bush, Mr. Giuliani emphasizes the need for tough border controls. He said he wanted to help those who are already in America become citizens, but he is quick to highlight that he is not in favor of amnesty, which leading Republican candidates dare not endorse.
(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...
Well, Rudy boosters tried to say Rudy needed to change his views on abortion.
And then Rudy turned around and declared that not only was abortion a Constitutional right, so was public funding of such.
And he also said strict constructionist judges could uphold Roe as precedent.
So even if Rudy changes his ideas on immigration, I would venture those changes would be just as meaningless as his changes on abortion.
freespirited: Why dont you accuse Fred of flip flopping on abortion?
Times change, events change, no one stays on rigid idiology except those who need to be told how to think and how to vote.
I think many Americans are accepting Amnesty now. I just saw a video of an idiot going unopposed in the comment section except one lone voice who happens to be hispanic.
Perhaps more Hispanics are against Amnesty than Americans? Sad to see such a lack of opposing comments to Amnesty here
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zV3VbFBHcRk
PING!
That’s the Compassionate Conservatism residual effect.
So let me get this straight...he was against unfettered immigration before he was for it?
“I dare say you won’t get any better than that on immigration from any other Republican that has a chance to win the nomination.”
Let’s take your statement at face value. So why then would any conservative actually care about who got the Republican nomination if all the nomination boiled down to was a choice between socialists?
“I guarantee you, Fred Thompson will not come out in favor of en-masse deportation, round ups, mass arrests by local law enforcement of day laborers, etc.”
And none of those would be necessary in order to secure the borders. Illegal aliens are not here for the fine cuisine or to see the sights. They’re here for jobs. The key is getting serious about prosecuting the employers.
You must think immigration is the only issue worthy of consideration.
And what happens if you change your mind after you have left office and have not had an opportunity to "follow through with action"? You should be presumed a liar?
If Fred was once Pro-Choice, he's changed his mind.
Agreed. Please give other Republicans the same courtesy.
Rudy has done nothing to show that he’s sincere about his change of positions.
Narses, I solemnly swear that your endless spam was duly noted months ago.
As I noted in the previous post, he hasnt been in office for some time and his work since has been in a completely different area.
I am not sure there is anything he can do to please you anyway.
Probably not. He already blew his chances to correct his past liberal positions. He came out not too long ago and said publicly-funded abortion for poor women is a Constitutional right.
Couple that with his long-time advocacy for national gun control, and it’s obvious this man has no proper understanding of the Constitution.
If you are talking about the same interview I read, that is not what he said. Paraphrasing, what he said was that as long as the Supreme Court holds it to be a constitutional right, he felt it appropriate for govt to step in and assist those who could not afford the service. However, he later made clear he would make no effort to change current laws that prohibit use of federal funds for abortion.
The demagoguery around here on this topic has gotten a bit out of hand. You'd think Rudy were running on a platform that has promoting abortion as its top priority.
And on a side note, if he thinks a "strict constructionist" judge can come down either way on Roe v. Wade...why the heck should we trust him to appoint ORIGINALIST judges?
Paraphrasing, what he said was that as long as the Supreme Court holds it to be a constitutional right, he felt it appropriate for govt to step in and assist those who could not afford the service.
Okay. Can the government buy me a Remington pump-action shotgun? After all, it's my constitutional right to keep and bear arms, and I can't afford one right now.
Doesn't work out, does it? There's a difference between recognizing Constitutional rights and forcing the taxpayers to fund the exercising of those rights.
“You must think immigration is the only issue worthy of consideration.”
I said nothing of the sort. My point is and remains that a choice between socialists whether they have an (R) or (D) behind their last name remains a nonchoice. But you already knew that. So if you’re looking to bait me into an argument over immigration, you’ll have to do better next time.
that is true.
but any effective employer sanction program, must have a tamper proof social security card - so employers have some uniform way of verification. Most people on this forum, would be opposed to that. so where does that leave employers? there is no way we are going to have a policy in this country where every “Hernandez” is subject to more employment scrutiny then every “Smith”.
I think Rudy is a man of his word who has good people advising him. I am confident that his judge picks would be sound. I dont think that his choices in NY give any insight about the type of person he would pick for the Supreme Court. He had to pick from a pre-selected group provided to him by others.
Roe v. Wade is so bizarre that I would not be surprised if someday a liberal judge voted it down.
Okay. Can the government buy me a Remington pump-action shotgun? After all, it's my constitutional right to keep and bear arms, and I can't afford one right now
I agree, the idea that the govt should pay to uphold what the court defines as constitutional rights does not make sense precisely for the reason you give (although some might argue that medical is different, I wouldnt.) My point was only that Rudy did not say in that interview that it was his view that abortion is a Constitutional right, only that the court said it.
I dont understand why so many people here are so exercised about this. Congress has passed laws against federal funding of abortion. Rudy has said he is not going to try to change that, and there is no reason to think he could succeed if he tried. Unless people sit on the sidelines and let lots of people be elected to Congress who might vote to repeal. Then you might have something to worry about.
All that said, I like Fred about equally.
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