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Dingell, NRA Working on Bill to Strengthen Background Checks
Washington Post ^ | April 20, 2007 | Jonathan Weisman

Posted on 04/20/2007 1:49:09 AM PDT by Oakleaf

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To: Labyrinthos

None of our rights are absolute. The government does have the assigned duty of protecting the citizens. Any act to protect citizens will, in some way, limit the rights of citizens.

The question isn’t therefore whether it is proper for the federal government to have any restrictions at all on gun ownership. Just like with free speech rights, there are valid limitations based on the rights of each person to life and liberty.

I still don’t know if Cho was known to be mentally ill sufficient to trigger valid government action against his right to have a weapon. He certainly SEEMS to have been, but I wonder how “serious” this stuff really was at the time, compared to how it is judged now that people know the end result. It’s easy to look back and remember things more harshly.

I would note that nothing in the constitution explicitly states that a felon can be denied his right to free speech or to own a gun, but few would argue that convicts should have CCW privileges.


61 posted on 04/20/2007 8:21:33 AM PDT by CharlesWayneCT
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To: Oakleaf; Joe Brower
...block gun purchases by the mentally ill.
Far from being a soothsayer I can easily predict where this will end up. The definition of "mentally ill" will be expanded and be so broad that anyone who wants to own a firearm will be considered to be mentally ill.
Folks are gonna get shafted on this one!
62 posted on 04/20/2007 8:35:35 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: Ruy Dias de Bivar
DON’T EVER FORGET that John Dingell resigned his NRA board of directors position so he could vote FOR Bill Clinton’s Assault weapons ban.

I didn't know that. Needs to be repeated.

63 posted on 04/20/2007 8:40:01 AM PDT by beltfed308 (Rudy: When you absolutely,positively need a liberal for President.)
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To: CharlesWayneCT
None of our rights are absolute. The government does have the assigned duty of protecting the citizens. Any act to protect citizens will, in some way, limit the rights of citizens. The question isn’t therefore whether it is proper for the federal government to have any restrictions at all on gun ownership. Just like with free speech rights, there are valid limitations based on the rights of each person to life and liberty.

I understand what you are saying, but I tend to be a strict constructionist when interpreting the Constitution. The right to free speech, for example, is absolute. If absolute free speech doesn't work, then amend the constitution. I feel the same way about the Second Amendment. The right to bear arms is unqualified. If modern society needs to omit from that right people who have been convicted of certain crimes or certifiably crazy, then we should amend the Second Amendment to provide such limitation. Whether the issue is free speech or firearms, I don't trust legislative bodies or political judges to make these decisions.

64 posted on 04/20/2007 8:48:33 AM PDT by Labyrinthos
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To: Shooter 2.5
Wayne from 1999.

First, we believe in absolutely gun-free, zero-tolerance, totally safe schools. That means no guns in America's schools, period ... with the rare exception of law enforcement officers or trained security personnel.

No qualifier before or after about whether this was high school or college.

So no... the NRA is hardly the hardliners on RKBA that you have historically made them out to be.

65 posted on 04/20/2007 8:58:39 AM PDT by Dead Corpse (What would a free man do?)
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To: Joe Brower

By the time I got down to your reply I saw that the tea leaves had already been read by yourself and others.


66 posted on 04/20/2007 9:00:39 AM PDT by philman_36
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To: Lurker
Can't do that. HIPPA regulations.

Yep, exactly.

67 posted on 04/20/2007 9:09:00 AM PDT by Extremely Extreme Extremist (Ben Franklin, we tried but we couldn't keep it.)
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To: Lurker

Call ‘em. It’s a toll free number. 1-800-392-8683.


68 posted on 04/20/2007 9:10:58 AM PDT by oldfart (The most dangerous man is the one who has nothing left to lose.)
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To: DB
I don’t think it is unreasonable that you have to be a citizen in order to purchase a gun. And if the Fed is going to demand background checks, they should have access to mental health records that indicate when a person has serious issues with reality...

We'd better think about this one. Given that the vast majority of people in the psychobabble / sociologist line of work are flaming, anti-gun liberals, do we really want them to make the determination as to who's entitled to have a gun? I can see this quickly degenerating into a situation where political enemies will be given a mental health assessment detrimental to their ever buying a gun on the legit. market.

69 posted on 04/20/2007 9:29:07 AM PDT by meyer (Bring back the Contract with America and you'll bring back the Republican majority.)
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To: Oakleaf
Mental illness is not detectable by an untrained bureaucrat. A lot of these people look complete normal on the surface. And the most evil people in the world - psychopaths - are just evil - they're perfectly sane by any psychological test you could care to administer to them. This is just feel-good nonsense that doesn't address the fact the cause of the VA Tech shootings wasn't due to the killer being able to acquire guns but rather that the VICTIMS couldn't.

"Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached." - Manuel II Palelologus

70 posted on 04/20/2007 9:36:42 AM PDT by goldstategop (In Memory Of A Dearly Beloved Friend Who Lives In My Heart Forever)
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To: Eagle Eye
Giving Feds access to any medical records is a very bad idea. Very bad.

Absolutely! Nothing good can come from giving that information, real or contrived, to the federal government. They can't even be trusted to honor the constitution.

71 posted on 04/20/2007 9:43:24 AM PDT by meyer (Bring back the Contract with America and you'll bring back the Republican majority.)
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To: Joe Brower

We have more laws than we need now!


72 posted on 04/20/2007 9:48:42 AM PDT by blackie (Be Well~Be Armed~Be Safe~Molon Labe!)
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To: meyer

Should only citizens have the right to free speech? To remain silent? To be have trials by jury? Etc.


73 posted on 04/20/2007 9:49:36 AM PDT by coloradan (Failing to protect the liberties of your enemies establishes precedents that will reach to yourself.)
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To: meyer

Amazing how many so-called freepers readily bend over for federal powers.


74 posted on 04/20/2007 9:50:29 AM PDT by Eagle Eye (Pelosi Democrats agree with Al Queda more often than they agree with President Bush.)
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To: Oakleaf
...the National Rifle Association has begun negotiations with senior Democrats over legislation to bolster the national background-check system and potentially block gun purchases by the mentally ill.

This is stupid .... more laws are NOT going to stop people like this.

75 posted on 04/20/2007 9:53:23 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Killing all of your enemies without mercy is the only sure way of sleeping soundly at night.)
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To: tiger-one
So you go to the range, rent an UZI 200 RNDs of ammo, and proceed to kill everyone in the place.

You do realize that everyone in that place will kill him after he gets 1 or 2 others?

76 posted on 04/20/2007 9:56:56 AM PDT by Centurion2000 (Killing all of your enemies without mercy is the only sure way of sleeping soundly at night.)
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To: Lurker
"I just flipped through that listing of the enumerated powers of the Federal government detailed in Article 1 Section 8 of the US Constitution, and I don't see a word in there about 'demanding' background checks."

There's nothing in there about the Air Force either. You missed the commerce clause gives Congress the authority to regulate the sale of firearms. That means they can license dealers and creat regs regarding participants in any particular area, or item in commerce.

The fed 18USC922 gives a list of things that should disqualify folks from partaking in firearms transactions. As it is now, the States are requested to submit info regarding fed disqualifiers to the DOJ for entry into the NICS database. It's voluntary per 28CFR25.4 now.

In 2002 the house passed a bill to change that to must supply the info. Had that bill been passed by the Senate and signed by Bush, Cho's court record would have shown up and hte firearms transaction would have been denied. That would have been a good thing.

77 posted on 04/20/2007 10:01:52 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: Oakleaf; Lurker
NRA supported 'Instant-Check' over the Brady Bill's waiting period. The system might have worked to prevent the VT killer from getting his guns via FFL transfer if it weren't for HIPAA and it's nutjob-to-doctor medical confidentiality policy from the HHS.

Seems to me that this is a Democrat policy contradiction: They demanded (and got) the Brady Bill which would supposedly prevent mental nutcases from lawfully acquiring firearms, then two years later they sealed the HHS medical confidentiality rules under HIPAA so tightly that they wailed like an alley cat when the Patriot Act permitted the government to open a person's medical records in the interests of 'National Security'.

They can't have it both ways, damn it.

Let the Democrats go in front of their voter base and say that they're relaxing HIPAA's vault-like medical confidentiality rules to allow FBI background checks on handgun transfers.

78 posted on 04/20/2007 10:05:40 AM PDT by The KG9 Kid
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To: Condor51
"This 'mentally ill' thing is a slippery slope."

18USC922(g)(4) refers to ajudicated a danger to self, or others, or invonluntarily committed as such. It does not refer to any abitrary BS. The law refers to court rulings, which almost allways come as a result of a criminal complaint. The law does not refer to anything other than that.

79 posted on 04/20/2007 10:08:40 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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To: The KG9 Kid
"HIPAA"

The relevant law is 18USC922(g)(4), which regards court records, not medical records. Those court records which contain a judicial finding that the person is a danger to self, or others, due to mental defect, should be in the DOJ's NICS dbase.

80 posted on 04/20/2007 10:17:54 AM PDT by spunkets ("Freedom is about authority", Rudy Giuliani, gun grabber)
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