Posted on 04/16/2007 7:59:22 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
It seems the Massacre at VA Tech (where I went to school briefly) was premeditated. The reasons are clear in the latest reports. First off the man took a gun to confront his girlfriend, who was more than likely trying to get out of sufficating relationship (I have seen this pattern before, but with less violent results). When he did not get what he wanted and an RA came to deal with the commotion the man pulled his gun and killed the girlfriend and RA. This means the man planned the confrontation and brought the gun with him.
The second act was also premeditated since the man came with guns and clips and the ability to chain the doors (when I was there there were no chains even wrapped on the doors to close them). Finally there is reporting that the bomb threats in the prior weeks were tests of the response time of the authorities. Combined with the news the man was a 24 year old from China shows a combination of military training (not OUR military lefties) and planning.
What really worries me is if this was a test for other attacks. If the man was testing College responses then the key would be to make this look like anything BUT a terrorist attack. I am not making the claim here this was terrorist related, but the man did not seem to be looking for his girlfriend’s lover, he seemed to be out trying to kill anyone he ran across. A perfect diversion for a test run would be a lover’s quarrel. And ending it in a ’suicide’ negates the ability to get to the bottom of his motives. Of course violent jealousy is not uncommon, and more so in male dominated societies like those in Asia and the ME. In those places killing women is like throwing away property. But something is not right here. For someone who was in the emotional throws of jealousy, the attack shows signs of careful planning and cold execution. The two characteristics do not mix. Careful planning and cool execution implies a lot of self control and discipline, things which are in complete opposition to an out of control act of rage.
Update: It seems I am not the only one who thinks this was a well planned out massacre (H/T Flopping Aces):
At this point, we all have more questions than answers. I’m being patient so far with the lack of facts coming out, but I’m hoping this has more do to with getting the facts right than with manipulation.
I’ve been following this all day and I’m surprised that nobody has pointed out the total incompetance of the campus police (read, security guards). They tried to contain the whole thing as an isolated dorm incident. It was way over their heads and they should have called in some real policemen who would have stormed the campus and prevented the second shooting.
The concept of a campus police force is stupid in this hollywood and terrorist era.
its like the word "tragedy" is the story....what actually happened and who the evil scum who did it is just blather....
You can say that again...turn on Geraldo on Fox right now.
You said — “The killer knew about guns, knew how to use them and how to get them. Maybe someone helped him buy what he needed....somebody who knew he was wasn’t allowed to possess a firearm but the price was nice.”
Yes, he was apparently some kind of gun freak to have had all that stuff already. But, that by itself, doesn’t mean that they are going to have planned this whole thing. And then, for what reason? Is there a statement that has been left? If not, then if this is some kind of “operation” — it’s an operation that no one understands (at this point in time, anyway) and so — it has lost *totally* any “meaning” it would have, as an “operation” to the public.
It’s all way too speculative at this time to hardly say anything. So, all we are doing here is making up a series of fairy tales. And as you can see above, I can make up the fairy tales as quick as the next guy...
Regards,
Star Traveler
**************************EXCERPT**********************************
"According to mostly but not entirely confirmed rumors available to The Reference Frame, the killer was a 6-foot tall male East Asian student from Radford University (where they just canceled a celebration), who was 24 years old, who has received his visa in Shanghai before he arrived on August 7th, and whose girlfriend from Virginia Tech dumped him two weeks ago. He had two guns (at least one of which was a 9 mm caliber handgun) and wore a vest or a black leather jacket - probably a bulletproof vest - with too much ammunition in it as well as a maroon cap".
Source: The Reference Frame
You said — “This guy could be a terrorist who wanted his identity to remain in a fog until his handlers could evealuate the episode for future planning.”
Yep, he could be a terrorist, and then he could be just one “whacked” guy. Too early to tell for sure.
Regards,
Star Traveler
>>1. Why the two-hour gap?
>>2. What’s site #2 got to do with site #1, if jealousy is the motive?
He did not find his girlfriend in site #1 so went to site #2 to track her down. The gap can be explained since it took him a little bit of time to get to site #2 and to look around for her.
He figured he was going to get his revenge on her (if he couldn’t have her nobody would). And instead of just taking himself out afterwards he would go out in a blaze of glory.
>>3. Why weren’t cops everywhere on campus after the first episode?
Because they thought it was an isolated incident. Two people were killed... maybe they thought it was murder suicide or a love-triangle. Who could have possibly imagined the shooter would go on a rampage?
>>Assume the worst.
Why? I can’t believe people here are still talking about terrorism with all the information that has come to light. Not every accident/murder/suspicious activity in the US is terrorism... as a matter of fact almost none of them are. But you people can continue living in your fantasy world being scared of the boogie man.
This initial security and subsequent probe has been ugly, sloppy and too secretive, so expect the investigation to be the same.
You said — “Trained by who? Do you have any “absolute” facts, or are you just airing your pet peeves? So far, nobody seems to know anything for certain.”
Yep, all totally speculation at this point. It pays for people to keep what is really known, what is maybe known, what is not known all in their own categories and sort through it all in the days to come. And finally, maybe we’ll get a picture of the entire thing. It’s way to speculative to know for sure right now.
Regards,
Star Traveler
P.S. — Also remember news reports tend to be *notoriously wrong* in the beginning and finally sort out to the true facts a bit later on.
this worked like a charm for the killer..
I think when the cops interviewed witnesses, at the site of the first shooting, they interviewed the shooter (thinking he was only another witness) and HE supplied the misinformation himself. He had two hours to kill, why not give himself some additional cover? That pretty much seems to be the way this “investigation” is going.
Geraldo is showing a Facebook page of this guy who says he goes to VT...is Asian...has a ton of guns...left a note on his blog etc...for God to forgive him for what he was about to do. Thing is...they can’t find the guy...nobody has seen him on campus before and they are trying to find out who he is.
I do not believe the police were incompetent or stupid. They were fed disinformation. Shep Smith said the Feds were working on four different scenarios. That tells me that they cannot easily connect a romantic relationship with dead woman and the shooter in Norris. They know who the woman is and have talked to friends and family and they CANNOT confirm a relationship. If they could, Shep would be reporting SOMETHING other than four different scenarios.
*********************EXCERPT********************
Learning about the identity
According to mostly but not entirely confirmed rumors available to The Reference Frame, the killer was a 6-foot tall male East Asian student from Radford University (where they just canceled a celebration), who was 24 years old, who has received his visa in Shanghai before he arrived on August 7th, and whose girlfriend from Virginia Tech dumped him two weeks ago. He had two guns (at least one of which was a 9 mm caliber handgun) and wore a vest or a black leather jacket - probably a bulletproof vest - with too much ammunition in it as well as a maroon cap.
In the morning around 7:15 am, he went to her dormitory at the fourth floor of the West Ambler Johnston Hall. If she were there, he shot her. If it wasn't her, he shot her female roommate and then the residential assistant, Ryan Clark of Martinez. They didn't shut down the university, so he continued and tried to find the ex-girlfriend or her new boyfriend in the engineering classrooms of the Norris Hall - see the picture above - a few hours later.
He didn't know the exact location, so he has visited a few classrooms and lined up all students against a wall. The worst massacre took place at 9:50 am in room 200 where the students were learning German 2105. He shot them one by one; yes, the professor, Jamie Bishop, died first. Finally, the calm animal killed himself by a shot into his head once he was cornered.
Eyewitness reports
Less direct VA reports from BBC
MSNBC interviews (video)
Bryce's journal (a student in Virginia)
A boyfriend of Kate (who was injured)
You said — “The execution of 33 people with small caliber arms... a student visa... a nation with a population of muslims officialy at 20 million and unofficialy at up to 200 million. A nation bordering pakistan, india, ubekistan, kasikstan. A militant group of Uighurs. No ID, No face suicide. 3 bomb threat to test security. A state wide “state of emergency”. 50% kill rate.... on going police activity around state. Al Queda cells busted in the western provinces of China today.”
Well, buried in all that was something about a state of emergency. As I read elsewhere, that’s a move which gets you federal funds and opens doors in a hurry to help with the kind of investigation that they are going to need. So, it’s a move to get those funds. Nothing sinister about that. It’s money...
And for the rest of it, all speculative and joining facts (that happen all the time all over the world) and saying they are connected — whether they are or not. They may be; they may not be. It’s simply *way too speculative* to say so.
In fact, *my speculation* is probably the more “normal” speculation that what you are saying. And who is to say that my speculation is better or worse than yours?
Regards,
Star Traveler
Wackos don’t wear black military jackets and have lots of ammo unless they are planning on killing lots of innocent people. Moreover, that part about killing himself will require some explaining to do too.
It is obviously premediated, obviously well-planned, and Beijing will obviously deny any connection.
See info at post #96....more angles to chase.....
“In fact, *my speculation* is probably the more “normal” speculation that what you are saying. And who is to say that my speculation is better or worse than yours?”
Um, the terrorist saying they are going to attack us, our schools, and their proven track record through out the world. That is why my speculation is better than yours.
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