Posted on 04/12/2007 9:41:13 AM PDT by areafiftyone
The New York Times blasted presidential hopeful Rudolph Giuliani on Thursday for telling Alabama reporters that it should be up to the state to decide whether to fly the Confederate flag over its Capitol.
And a political pundit in turn blasted the Times for its "silly” anti-Giuliani piece.
Discussing the flag issue, Giuliani told the reporters: "We have different sensitivities and at different times we’re going to come to different decisions, and I think that is best left to the states.”
The Times went on the attack in an editorial: "Mr. Giuliani cannot truly believe the issues surrounding the Confederate flag are just a matter of local taste. The Civil War, the civil rights movement and the Supreme Court answered that question.”
The editorial went on to castigate Giuliani for "pandering” on abortion and gun control, concluding:
"Mr. Giuliani ought to stop waving in the wind, because that would be the right thing to do. It is also not working. Southern political strategists said he’s too moderate on abortion and pronounced him dead in their states. In Alabama, the local press mocked him for failing to recognize an actual Confederate flag. Americans know a pander when they see one.”
Writing on Time Inc.’s blog Real Clear Politics, Blake Dvorak observed: "In other words, the Times wants Giuliani to stop being a politician campaigning for the presidency. Give up now, Mr. Mayor, says the Times, because conservative America will never vote for you. Is this not odd? How to explain it, momentarily leaving aside the Times’ visceral dislike of anyone to its right?”
Dvorak cites a remark from Roger Simon, chief political columnist at Politico.com: "Rudy has been very clear in front of conservative audiences that his social views are more liberal than theirs. He has not lied about that, as far as I can tell, for a second. And he’s still well ahead. What could those ‘conservatives’ be thinking?”
Dvorak concludes: "As Simon points out, Giuliani’s position in the polls scares the Times, because if he can get through the primaries, he’s got major cross-over appeal in the general election that a down-the-line conservative wouldn’t have. Hence, this silly attack.”
Hence my quotation marks. ;)
Yeah, I know, I was just agreeing with you.
Indeed.
I just am BAFFLED by how so many people are enticed by this guy. Were it anyone else, he’d be torn to shreds.
You're kidding right? With most of the uninformed it's all about form over substance. That is why Clinton was so popular and that's why many FReepers think the biggest news story of the year is about a stripper dying of a drug overdose and the soap opera about which of the half dozen men she was sleeping with impregnated her.
You should reconsider. If the Times editorial board thinks something's right, it's usually wrong.
Thanks for the ping and the good points.
Here’s some of mine. Especially note that if Brownback is only 5 points behind shrillery, then the “rudy’s the only one who can beat her” mantra is totally bogus.
As a freeper I am disappointed that there are fans of a liberal presidential candidate trying to push socially liberal views on this socially conservative forum. In particular, I have noticed that the Rudy G fans do not answer posts questioning the qualitative substance of their candidate, or the posts are met merely with insults. And in short, I have noticed that rudy followers are simply rude.
Hildebeast is eminently beatable, this nonsense about rudy being the only one who can beat her is horse manure and impolite on this socon forum. For example, this article:
“Long Shot GOP Candidate Brownback Just Five Points Behind Clinton”
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1798666/posts
We know that it simply means it’s very early in the race and that even no-name candidates are only 5 points behind Clinton. So the rudybots should stop supporting a social liberal on this social conservative forum and pick a real winner, rather than a ridiculous loser liberal like rudy.
The 2 polls on Free Republic put forth an obvious SOCON (only Hunter fits that description given) versus a SOLIB (it certainly fits rudy).
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/poll?poll=171
http://www.freerepublic.com/perl/poll?poll=172
Rudy splits the base.
I have noticed time and again that rudy supporters rudely send up the false dilemma of “who would you vote for, Hildebeast or Rudy”. This particularly impolite at this early of a point in the primary cycle. Since this is a socon forum (not even a GOP forum), it is very impolite to ask double-bind questions, especially this early in the race.
Since team rudy is so fond of its own false dilemma, I would expect them to answer this false dilemma.
My contention: If rudy gets the nomination, he splits the base, possibly splits the republican party, and loses the election.
Rudy followers’ contention: If Hunter gets it, he wins the base and loses the election.
Hypothetical to answer the rudy followers’ hypothetical. Both sides losing to Hillary.
Side A: The solib republican splits the base. The MSM turns on him the moment he is nominated. Hillary wins. Republican party is split.
Side B: The socon republican wins the nomination, loses to hildebeast in a tough fight. Republicans are united against the hillary presidency.
Which candidate is best for the republican party, Side A or Side B?
Win-Win false dilemma:
Side A: Solib wins presidency by ignoring the socon base and permanently splitting the republican party.
Side B: SoCon wins presidency by (obviously) relying on the socon base.
Which candidate is best for the republican party, Side A or Side B?
Regardless of who wins or loses, Free Republic and the republican party is better off with Duncan Hunter than Rudy as the candidate. This social liberal candidate is simply not healthy for the republican party nor for FR. And rudy followers are proving to be very impolite freepers.
Duncan Hunter’s campaign website
http://www.gohunter08.com/
Sam Hunter: Duncan Hunter’s Ambassador to Free Republic
3/13/2007
Posted on 03/13/2007 10:11:39 AM PDT by Ultra Sonic 007
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1800187/posts
Sam has been answering questions, unlike the crickets we hear on rudy threads.
Statement of Jim Robinson, Founder of Free Republic:
As a conservative site, Free Republic is pro-God, pro-life, pro-family, pro-Constitution, pro-Bill of Rights, pro-gun, pro-limited government, pro-private property rights, pro-limited taxes, pro-capitalism, pro-national defense, pro-freedom, and-pro America. We oppose all forms of liberalism, socialism, fascism, pacifism, totalitarianism, anarchism, government enforced atheism, abortionism, feminism, homosexualism, racism, wacko environmentalism, judicial activism, etc.
That’s why socons are signing petitions such as this one:
http://theconservativedeclaration.wordpress.com/
Conservatives:
Rudy Giuliani is an unacceptable Republican nominee for President of the United States. He is pro-abortion, pro-partial birth abortion, pro-registration of handguns, and pro-homosexual rights. He is the most liberal Republican candidate for President in our nation’s history.
Conservatives should leave no doubt that we will not support his candidacy under any circumstances. Therefore, we have created the Conservative Declaration of Independence to publicly state our position regarding the Republican Party’s consideration of a liberal as our Presidential nominee.
Please email theconservativedeclaration@hotmail.com to add your name to the list of signers.
Article II Supporting Evidence
Rudolf Giuliani explaining his liberal views:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVBtPIrEleM
Rudolf Giuliani explaining his position on abortion:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALDfwXIYUX0
Rudolf Giuliani dressed as female:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4IrE6FMpai8
Interview with gay couple Rudolf Giuliani lived with when Sept 11th occurred:
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1589/is_2001_Sept_11/ai_78265968
Ban on Partial Birth Abortions:
“No, I do not support that (a ban on partial birth abortion), and I do not see my position on that changing.”
Abortion:
“There must be public funding of abortion for poor women. We cannot deny any woman the right to make her own decision about abortion because she lacks resources. I have also stated that I disagree with President’s Bush’s veto for public funding of abortion.”
Immigration:
“There is not a Mayor or Public Official in this country who is more pro-immigrant than I am.”
Gun Control:
“I am in favor of gun control”
“You know I am in favor of that (registration of all hand guns)”
Gay Rights:
”I support domestic partnership legislation and I signed it.”
Free Speech:
“I am a big supporter of McCain-Feingold and have been for a long time”
Party Loyalty:
”Frankly, I would like to run on all the lines. The liberal line, the conservative line, I would like to run on the Democratic line if I could figure out how to do it.”
They really believe he can win. I do not. Rudy has really been given an easy way so far by the media.
I am sure the real unknown to us, scrutiny will come into focus down the road.
Bet you it won’t be nice either.
The stuff in this article we already know about. What will it be that we do not know about yet?
Once you give up your principles the first time, it becomes easier and easier until you are left without any.
My Dads advice.
You should put “Conservatives Don’t Vote for Liberals, be they Democrat or Republican” in your tagline.
You just keep mumbling that to yourself
NY Times is a Marxist paper. Hillary is a Marxist....there you are.
Sometimes, conservatives who care about their country vote for RINOs so guys like Jesse Helms and Phil Gramm can chair Senate committees.
It's called politics...and it's an area of study woefully disregarded by quite a few ignorami at Free Republic.
Can you point out a single Rudy booster that has been banned simply for pushing Rudy as the GOP nominee on FR? Where there have not been other considerations, such as spreading falsehoods about another candidate or engaging in widespread personal attacks or flame-baiting?
Post #46 - marvelous!! Good for you. Rudy is a winner and the democrat party smells that and it scares them.
That’s the purpose of a primary vote, now isn’t it?
When it comes to Congress, I’d vote straight Republican, with exceptions for guys like Specter (then again, I live in Bama, so I don’t have that problem).
Yeah, sure.
Rudy couldn't even outpoll Hillary in the 2000 NY Senate race when he was mayor and she was a carpetbagger.
These are people who see that Guiliani will be tough on terror
He's so tough on terror, he pushed a corrupt crony for the most important anti-terror position in the country.
Y'all can repeat this nonsense all you want. However, endless repetition of nonsense does not make it any less nonsensical.
In Rooty’s insular mind, rights and freedoms are what HE says they are.
The lisping Little Emperor doesn’t give a fig about the Constitution, or the Bill of Rights.
That alone disqualifies The Rudester from sitting at the levers of government.
And that’s not all. Rudy also asserts 2A was for “hunters.”
Rudeo knows zilch about US history, as well.
You should put “Conservatives Don’t Vote for Liberals, be they Democrat or Republican” in your tagline.
My point is that sometimes conservatives do vote for liberal Republicans, and they can do so with a clear conscience in the hope that men like Jeff Sessions and Saxby Chambliss will be running committees.
Third-Party votes and principled nonvotes on the part of conservatives gets Democrats elected. Then you get Nancy Pelosi, Nostrils Waxman and Tom Lantos orchestrating U.S. defeat in Iraq.
And while I'm on the subject of Iraq, Rudy Giuliani, while abysmally wrong on abortion and The 2nd Amendment, is right on The War In Iraq, the larger War On Terror, budgets, tax cuts and support for Israel. That puts him lightyears ahead of any Democrat in the field.
If you want the United States to lose the War In Iraq and The War On Terror, don't vote Republican!
You think Peach will be banned?
Well, you seem to support Rudy, so maybe you will believe anything.....
Obviously Rudy is perceived as a threat to the socialist takeover of this country.
The NYT starts this, and all the lemming-liberals pick it up and repeat it and embellish it.
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