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April 12, 1861 The War Between The States Begins!
Civil War.com ^ | Unknown | Unknown

Posted on 04/12/2007 9:34:54 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861

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To: Non-Sequitur

Of course, we all know that whether the property was “stolen” or not is a matter of conjecture and opinion.
And EVERYBODY has one.


621 posted on 04/20/2007 11:34:26 AM PDT by TexConfederate1861 (Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy.......)
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To: TexConfederate1861
Of course, we all know that whether the property was “stolen” or not is a matter of conjecture and opinion.

The property didn't belong to them, or at least to them alone. They took it. They didn't offer to pay for it before they took it. Sure sounds like stealing to me.

622 posted on 04/20/2007 12:05:01 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
They didn't offer to pay for it before they took it.

Apparently they did offer to pay for it, although it was a Godfather-like "either your signature goes on the contract or your brains do" sorta offer. From the letter that Buchanan's Sec'y of War sent to the SC AG:

The proposal, then, now presented to the President is simply an offer on the part of South Carolina to buy Fort Sumter and contents as property of the United States, sustained by a declaration in effect that if she is not permitted to make the purchase she will seize the fort by force of arms. As the initiation of a negotiation for the transfer of property between friendly governments this proposal impresses the President as having assumed a most unusual form.
What else is interesting here is South Carolina's admission that Sumter is, in fact, United States property.
623 posted on 04/20/2007 12:49:04 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("fyi, i CAN get you banned."--stand watie)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
evidence??? NOT likely.

BILGE & HATE-filled NONSENSE???

YEP. that's "bubba, DUH TROLL!

fyi, you've RUINED yourself.

laughing AT you, TROLL.

free dixie,sw

624 posted on 04/20/2007 2:09:18 PM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: stand watie

So, multiple letters from Watie’s wife, to him, mentioning the horses that she has, taken from a 1921 book (readily findable in libraries, by the way) and posted on the Oklahoma Historical Society’s website don’t constitute evidence. But your say-so does. Is that about right?


625 posted on 04/20/2007 2:12:52 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("fyi, i CAN get you banned."--stand watie)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
what a LAUGH! NOBODY (least of all,me)threatened you. you're just a HATE-filled, FOOLish, little TROLL, who has destroyed himself.

YOU & ONLY you are responsible for your REPUTATION as a CREEP.

what i say to you, i say "to your face". others here laugh AT you & ridicule you "behind your back".

laughing AT you, as MOST here do.

free dixie,sw

626 posted on 04/20/2007 2:13:09 PM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: Non-Sequitur
as you KNOW, there was NO theft.

the south & LIBERTY was FOREVER (and is NOW) the enemy of OPPRESSION by the northeastern elitists.

period. end of story.

free dixie,sw

627 posted on 04/20/2007 2:15:22 PM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: stand watie
what i say to you, i say "to your face". others here laugh AT you & ridicule you "behind your back".

Then they're cowards.

628 posted on 04/20/2007 2:28:11 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("fyi, i CAN get you banned."--stand watie)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
inasmuch as you have RUINED your reputation on FR & are evidently "a stranger"to any semblance of HONESTY, DECENCY & FAIR play on FR, FEW care what, if anything, you post.

i ONLY post to you, because i enjoy ABUSING liars,trolls, useful idiots, creeps & BIGOTS. (i'm SURE that you're at least ONE of those & given that you are believed to be "the BANNED FOREVER heyworthLESS" in another guise, perhaps ALL of those things.)

be glad that i'll post to you, as otherwise you would have NOBODY but "Mr Spin, the bigot & "ftd", "everybody's punching bag" to respond to your BILGE & DECEIT.

free dixie,sw

629 posted on 04/20/2007 2:30:44 PM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: stand watie

Fine, but you have zero crediblity (latest example—proof that Watie owned horses despite your claims), so your tale about these mystery correspondents don’t much impress me. All it takes is for one to speak up and prove you correct. Just like it would only take one library listing for “Yachts Against Subs.” Or some evidence of the Alexandria synagogue even existing before 1861 to contradict the historical marker. Or...oh, there are just so many.


630 posted on 04/20/2007 2:41:05 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("fyi, i CAN get you banned."--stand watie)
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To: stand watie
as you KNOW, there was NO theft

The facts make you out to be a liar.

the south & LIBERTY was FOREVER

Except for that pesky one third of the population you all held title to.

631 posted on 04/20/2007 2:59:06 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
Then they're cowards.

I think he's talking about his imaginary friends.

632 posted on 04/20/2007 3:00:05 PM PDT by Non-Sequitur (Save Fredericksburg. Support CVBT.)
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To: Non-Sequitur
I think he's talking about his imaginary friends.

It's sad when your imaginary friends are cowards, isn't it? What I always find entertaining is when Watie quotes these alleged correspondents, they always seem to sound just like him.

633 posted on 04/20/2007 3:24:41 PM PDT by Bubba Ho-Tep ("i'm wrong about many things"--stand watie)
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To: stand watie
After a couple years of the war and the Union and Pins destroying everything they had, they couldn't buy much and the confederacy really didn't give them much. The slaves were mostly fighting along side their masters. As for horses, in one of Sarah Watie's letters she references one horse that she can get $600.00 for, that was near the end of the war. Horses were rare and expensive, but I hadn't heard Watie didn't have a horse. Hardly any of them had regular CSA uniforms.

I'm close to done with this book about a lot of this. You'll understand it more as you learn more.

Actually, there is a letter from Watie to his wife during the war, where he is telling her she needs to send him a 'domestic'. It will take me some time to find, and I don't have the time now, but remind me if I forget.

634 posted on 04/20/2007 8:01:55 PM PDT by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep; stand watie

Nevermind my last post. I see someone has posted one of the letters.

stand, where did you get the idea Watie didn’t have horses? One of their biggest joys was horse racing. He had plantations and lots of stock before the war.

Anyway, I’ve had enough of this conversation. Doesn’t seem anyone is interested in learning history, some just want to argue and never solve anything. Same crappola that starts wars.


635 posted on 04/20/2007 8:13:05 PM PDT by AuntB (" It takes more than walking across the border to be an American." Duncan Hunter)
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To: Non-Sequitur
fyi, OUR family had NO slaves EVER. NEITHER did over 90% of southerners.

nonetheless we southerners wanted our FREEDOM, just as the forefathers of 1776 did. the NON-slaveowners of dixie were willing to ally with the "planters" for a while to GET freedom. IF our ancestors had won, the NEXT enemy might well have been the southern elites. (the WBTS, for southerners, was a PEASANT UPRISING led by a few professional soldiers, like Lee & Jackson.)

furthermore,as you KNOW, about the SAME percentage of DAMNyankees, INCLUDING many "prominent abolitionists", owned slaves and/or PROFITED from slavery!!! (DAMNyankees have ALWAYS been HYPOCRYTES/LIARS/SELFrighteous/sanctimonious !)

free dixie,sw

636 posted on 04/20/2007 9:33:25 PM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: Non-Sequitur
laughing AT you.

sometimes you (as the ONLY DAMNyankee with a brain & an education) say something REALLY SILLY & STUPID. #632 is one of those STUPID comments.

perhaps, you're "playing to your audience", when you say that sort of BUNK. i KNOW you're smarter than THAT particular stupid comment.

free dixie,sw

637 posted on 04/20/2007 9:37:27 PM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: Bubba Ho-Tep
actually, i paraphrase their comments.

UNlike YOU, FOOL, i don't choose to betray confidences, NOR do i choose to RUIN myself, as you HAVE.

laughing AT you, TROLL.

free dixie,sw

638 posted on 04/20/2007 9:39:43 PM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: AuntB
PLEASE do.

i appreciate your help.

fyi, i was "talking with" a coworker at my night job about this subject (Gerry is a Creek/French halfbreed & a WBTS reenactor.).

he said, "i wonder IF the REASON there seems to be a "disconnect" here is that the General SOLD most everything he had to outfit the 1st Mounted Cherokee Rifles. Many southern officers did just that."

is Gerry correct??? i simply don't know. nonetheless, it's ONE possible explaination.

free dixie,sw

639 posted on 04/20/2007 9:46:49 PM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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To: AuntB
see #639.

i have SEEN a letter to one of the General's cousins, where he SAID that he could NOT afford to buy a horse/sword/sidearms/dress uniform.

there is also a 1st person account of one of the General's staff-members that mentions that he was still riding the "good, young, red mule, borrowed from his kinsman".

Aunt B, when you are dealing with a group of HATE-filled, DIShonest,SELF-righteous DUNCES and/or a TROLL (who is here ONLY to "cause discord" & cares NOTHING for the TRUTH), it's hard to carry on the sort of historical conversations that USED to be on the WBTS threads.

THANKS for your input.

free dixie,sw

640 posted on 04/20/2007 9:54:21 PM PDT by stand watie ("Resistance to tyrants is OBEDIENCE to God." - T. Jefferson, 1804)
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