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Lets try this with Polygamy

1. God does not change.

>>But the clarity of His revelation to us does—there is such a thing as progress in
>>God’s revelation, and our understanding of it. It is through the New Testament
>>we can fully understand the Old Testament. When Jesus was asked about
>>divorce, he pointed to Adam and Eve. One Adam, one Eve, not Adam, Eve, Joan,
>>Amy, Jennifer, etc....
Did you read the page I sent you to with an interesting take? Here, let me give you the link again. http://www.samchapman.talktalk.net/scriptur.htm the author of this page has a very interesting take on polygamy, and the Bible. Oh, and he is not a Mormon, at least not by his explanations. Let me quote him as I want to be accurate” Another way of looking at it would be that God made Adam marry every woman who was around - because that is what happened. If we tried to do that today we would all have to be polygamists, and we might find it a hard rule to follow.”

>>If polygamy is God’s ideal, in a world empty of humans, why just one couple in
>>the beginning?

Because it was enough, why don’t we marry our brothers and sisters today? All of Adam’s offspring did. (This “Adam” example just will not hold water, the valid argument that Adam married all the women around means you are reading things in to the scriptures that are just not there and all it proves is god is pro marriage between men and women)

2. Abraham had two wives (as well as concubines) and was specifically approved of by God after being polygamous.

Actually, Abraham had only one wife at a time,

BZZT Wrong! This is such a laughable attempt to dodge the truth as to be funny.

Lets get a few things out of the way. Abraham wanted an HEIR. The only way to have an heir is to have a male child by your WIFE. Concubines would not “do”, adultery would not “do”, it had to be a wife.

So here is the time line (Genesis 16)
2 And Sarai said unto Abram, Behold now, the LORD hath restrained me from bearing: I pray thee, go in unto my maid; it may be that I may obtain children by her. And Abram hearkened to the voice of Sarai.
3 And Sarai Abram’s wife took Hagar her maid the Egyptian, after Abram had dwelt ten years in the land of Canaan, and gave her to her husband Abram to be his wife.

So, Abraham is married to Sari, and Hagar at the same time (it says WIFE).
15 ¶ And Hagar bare Abram a son: and Abram called his son’s name, which Hagar bare, Ishmael.

So there is a male child (the marriage has defiantly been consummated), the presumptive heir at this point is Ishmael.

(Genesis 17)

In verse 5 God changes Abrams name to Abraham
In verse 15 God changes Sari’s name to Sarah.
God blesses Abraham and the unborn Isaac because of Abrahams exceeding Righteousness.

>>then after waiting for over 30 years for his promised son, got impatient, and followed
>>the common ancient Near East practice of taking a concubine—Sarah his wife’s idea.
>>There is no indication at all God approved of that, in fact just the opposite. The
>>description in Genesis 16 and forward of Abraham’s family life and marriage to Sarah,
>>after his taking a concubine, is anything but pretty—eventually resulting in the
>>concubine and her son, Ishmael’s banishment. After Sarah’s death Abraham remarried.

This stands disproved for anyone who wishes to actually read the scriptures (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/gen/16 )

>>God’s approval of Abraham was not based on all the things he did—rather,
>>scripture clearly says, “Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as
>>righteousness.”(Rom 4:3)

Again from Genesis 17:1 AND when Abram was ninety years old and nine, the LORD appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty God; walk before me, and be thou perfect.

Abraham was commanded to be perfect, but god did not say and get rid of that concubine, instead he blesses Ishmael at Abrahams request.

>>Isaac, Abraham’s promised son, had only one wife,

So? No one is saying marrying one wife is wrong, only that ALL marriage is Godly.

>>then Jacob, Isaac’s son, had 2 wives—with constant problems of rivalry between
>>them—hardly a picture of domestic tranquility. In fact Jacob has arguably the most
>>dysfunctional family described in the bible—all stemming from his polygamy. Read
>>about it in God’s true Word in Gen. 29, 30

So Marriages with one wife are always a bed of roses? This is a ridiculous argument. Anyone out there know of a man who got divorced because of trouble with his wife? ROTFLOL!
3. Therefore God still approves of polygamy.
Interesting, I’ve never heard a Mormon admit they still believe in polygamy....

Sure, we just don’t practice it because it’s against the law. What do you think we believe will happen in the last day when all will be resurrected to be judged? Did you think we believe those married for all time and eternity will be severed because of a law of this world that should never have held up to review? No, those married by God’s word will still be married. However, we are bound to obey the law of the land (it’s in the articles of faith) so we do not practice polygamy because it is illegal. (Isn’t being law abiding a good character in a president?)

>>What you have with Abraham, and all the Old Testament saints, is evidence that
>>God’s mercy—not everything that those men and women did—is the basis of salvation.

>>God clearly loved and approved of King David, who wrote most of the Psalms. What
>>was the basis though? That David lived a wonderful life? No. David committed
>>adultery with Bathsheba, and then murder, besides being a polygamist.

Let’s examine this a bit more closely shall we, how about actually using the scriptures Second Samuel (2 Sam) Chapter 12. (http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_sam/12) Tells David the parable of the exe lamb (a man with much stealing from a man with little) Nathan tells David this parable is about him. In verse 8 Nathan says to David:

8 And I gave thee thy master’s house, and thy master’s wives into thy bosom, and gave thee the house of Israel and of Judah; and if that had been too little, I would moreover have given unto thee such and such things.

The lord GAVE David the wives. The lord said he would have given David more if was not enough.

Would God cause any man to sin? Why then did he give David these “Wives” if it was a sin? Because it was and is not a sin.

>>But God in His mercy helped move David to repent, and then forgave and loved him
>>anyway. Similarly, in the same way that slavery was practiced in OT times....and was
>>certainly better than just killing all your enemies...so too polygamy was overlooked, in
>>that God is merciful—and no Old Testament saint was perfect.

What Blasphemy is this? Jesus was the only one perfect, but he is the one approving of this polygamy in both the old and new testaments. Show me one scripture that plainly speaks of Jesus speaking out against polygamy (not Divorce, I have already covered that) but Polygamy. You can’t because he never condemned it.

>>Is polygamy better than serial divorce? Yes, but both are still far from God’s ideal.

And you would know this from some revelation? The Bible certainly does not say that.

>>I will stand with the King James bible (which Joseph Smith read, understood—and disobeyed)

Balderdash, you are not in agreement with what you are now claiming to stand behind.

>>which you specifically asked for—along with every other legitimate modern English
>>translation—as well as the opinion of the Greek scholars whom I know, that St. Paul
>>clearly and unambiguously commanded monogamy as the only acceptable married
>>state for any kind of church leadership.

If monogamy is the only accepted form of marriage then PROVE it.

You want to quote from some “New translation” why? The KJV is the gold standard of Bibles in America. I a Mormon seem to know more about the history of Christianity than you do, you seemed surprised at the history behind the Trinity, the fact that many early Christians believed as I do, and that they were authoritarians in their day with both impressive pedigrees, and respected works.

You ran from the research required to discuss early church beliefs with “I don’t have time or inclination to refute you point by point”

FR is a highly addictive website, if you don’t have the time, don’t come here. If you don’t want an argument then don’t miss represent what others believe. I would never pontificate about your faith. Why do you feel free to do so about mine? You attacked me by judging me (a very un-Christian act) as a non-Christian. Now you continue to misstate and mislead, insult and belittle. Are these the actions of a Christian? I am beginning to be glad that in your eyes you and I have a different God if your God teaches you to have such a mean spirited and unforgiving, stiff necked and proud approach to anyone professing belief in Jesus, then I want no part of the denomination!

>>Joseph Smith and Brigham Young were unquestionably disobedient to New Testament
>>revelation in their polygamy. Not only were they personally disobedient, they led
>>thousands of others to be so as well. Their gross, disreputable and lawless lifestyle in
>>this area alone falsifies any revelation they claimed as being from God.

This is such a steaming pile, well I am going to go into what has already been disproven.

>>I find it sad that you are so blind to what all Christians believe about polygamy, and
>>the more important issues of faith in Christ. Try reading Holy Scripture, instead its
>>pretenders’ “cunningly devised fables.” (II Peter 1:16)

The All Christians thing again? Who elected you pope that you speak for all? Bah.
You may not have noticed, but I have refuted your every point without going beyond the Bible (KJV) as I said I could. The problem with the Bible as it stands is it requires interpretation, passages have become vague through many translations and you can prove almost any doctrinal point from it. This is why we have so many denominations of Christianity. Mormons are not hampered by this as we have additional works to give us clarity in how and what the Bible means.

I hope you are able to hear the logic of my words and will read the scriptures I have quoted for you are sorely mistaken and it should be embarrassing to you to have someone you claim does not know the bible or Christ to know it better than you. Apparently, I have more time to study God’s word than you do.

This should sadden you.

Be well and may God bless you with knowledge and understanding.