The assertion you made which I invited you to prove was: "Moses messed up; you know the water thing in the deseret. Some other Biblical prophets made prophesies that didn’t come to past." Your first falsehood was addressed in my initial response, re. Moses failing the Prophecy test because of his failure to speak to the stone for water to pour forth and instead striking the stone ... significant because of the foreshadowing of the Redeemer to come who will not be crucified twice.
Now for your further dissembling. And note at the outset that a conditional nature of SOME Prophecy in no way cancels the measure of a true Prophet, as the Jews living in the day of their Prophets' admonishments testifies so clearly and you choose to dissemble as if it is of no significance since it doesn't support the cut and paste indoctrination you have posted. Since God instructed the Jews to set the standard He instructed for measuring the truth of a Prophet, you have at the outset tried to infer that God is fickle. But I'm not surprised at such chicanery since the entire of Mormonism is based on just such satanic inference with J Smith's claim of God in a body and Christ in His body appearing to Smith, the treasure diviner/scam artist so pure that Christ AND God Almighty would appear to good Joe --THE Christ, who had ascended nearly two thousand years prior and promised to return in a specific way not found in Smith's big lie. For your and Joe Smith's assertions to be truth Christ must be a liar. May it never be ... and may God have mercy upon you specifically for trying this deception so openly.
Your cited examples of conditional admonishments to the Israelites and to Nineveh support only the conditional nature which God instructed with the specific messages and in no way turns all of Prophecy into conditional prophecy. You, if you believe Jesus is the Only Salvation under Heaven, ought to understand this else the numerous prophesies regarding the coming of the Lamb of God could be altered to suit one or another deceiver choosing to do what Smith tried to do, create an alternate Gospel. You have spent bandwidth posting only that which illustrates conditional admonishments, in so far as you can construe them to do so to support your agenda:
The Lord told David that the men of Keilah “will deliver thee up [to Saul]” (1 Samuel 23:12). This did not happen, however, because David fled from the city (verses 13-14). Isaiah told king Hezekiah, “Thus saith the Lord, Set thine house in order; for thou shalt die, and not live.” (2 Kings 20:1) But after the king pleaded with the Lord, the prophet delivered a new message, saying that fifteen years would be added to his life (verses 2-6). Nice try to misuse the verb will as non-conditional when it is precisely used to be conditional with David and Hezekiah. You do not veer from your dissembling agenda.
The Lord told Moses that he would destroy the Israelites and make of Moses a greater nation than they. When Moses protested that this would be wrong, the Lord changed his mind (Numbers 14:11-20). If you look at the Hebrew verb translated as 'changed His mind' you will find that the verb is a conditional assertion, again you try to take a conditional admonishment and misstate it as a fixed prophecy you can refute. How utterly telling of a deceiver.
It is in the light of the conditional nature of prophecy that we must consider some of Joseph Smith’s prophecies. Uh, no, 'we' don't need to lend credence to a liar and conman, but you might need to. You do not warrant further discussion because you are not dividing the scriptures rightly. You are citing passages as prophesies from the Lord God when they are admonishments from a man serving God. J. Smith served J Smith, not God. You have a deceptive way of trying to herd God's scripture into the boxes which will support your cult's lies and elaborate deceptions:
By this same reasoning, God should not have promised a throne to David (1 Samuel 16:12-13; 2 Samuel 3:9-10; 1 Kings 2:4; 8:25; 9:5), since David, in future, would commit adultery and order the death of an innocent man (1 Samuel 11). God made His promises to David with full afore-knowledge of David's life to come. ...
This also brings up the question of Jesus’ promise to his twelve apostles: “Ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel” (Luke 19:28). This promise was made before Judas betrayed the Master and he was obviously included among those who would sit on the “twelve thrones.” How could Jesus have made such a promise to the one who would betray him, whom he termed “a devil” (John 6:70-71)? You conveniently deceive the reader by ignoring the 'Ye which have followed me' ... Judas showed he was not following Jesus when he betrayed him. ...
The answer seems obvious: at the time of the promises, Judas, Thomas B. Marsh and George Miller were faithful to the Lord. By their subsequent actions, they lost all claim to those promises. The answer 'seems' obvious to one seeking to deceive in such a way as to support false doctrine, but it was never so that Jesus made a promise to Judas that Judas later destroyed the veracity thereof ... unless you actually believe that Judas or you or any Mormon is powerful enough to keep the Promises of God by your merit or negate God's unconditional promise by your already determined inability to defeat Satan and his minions. Actually, Mormonism teaches this exact false doctrine, that a Mormon can be so faithful as to make the Promises of God accrue or be unfaithful enough to have God cancel His unconditional Promise of Grace in Christ Jesus. And that is part of why your religion is a cult, a non-Christian look-alike that draws people away from Christ and toward self-salvation as was hinted in the Garden following the deceptive invitation to doubt the Promises of God to Adam and Eve... 'though shalt surely die' and they did, but not in body rather in soul when God's Holy Spirit did not take up residence in their human spirits.
Thanks for the ping. At a glance, an interesting and informative thread. I will try and catch up to it sometime this weekend. Thanks to all contributors.
I only sighed because I knew it would only lead to a fight. I am not pointing the finger at you, but I think a discussion on religion, unlike science where claims can be tested in a labatory, ultimately is highly subjective to one’s interpretation of the God’s word (which I would hope is guided by the Holy Spirit). This is why I have disdain for such an argument. It is pointless to have a discussion if both parties are not willing to cede any ground from their respective points of view.
I believe in angels visiting men today who have authority to act as a respresentative for the Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.
I believe that the vision of Stephen the Martyr is literal, which is God the Father and Jesus Christ are seperate physical beings.
I believe that we are a very tiny way, sons and daughters of our Heavenly Father as stated in Psalms 8:6 “I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are achildren of the most High” and by Jesus Christ in John 10:34 “Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?”
I believe Jesus Christ was in the beginning the Word and was with the Father, and became Flesh as a creation of our Heavenly Father.
I believe that scattering of the Jews into all the nations of the world as prophesied by Jeremiah 34:17 is literal. The Americas was one of these nations and for a brief period of time had a people who followed the Lord Jesus Christ.
I believe that the story of the Tower Babel as depicted in the Bible resulted in a migration of a people to the Americas too.
I believe that the gospel of Jesus Christ is 1. Faith in his name, 2. Repentance, 3. Baptism by immersion, 4. Gift of the Holy Ghost., and 5. Saintification through the power of the Holy Ghost by the life-long process of following its promptings, improving oneself, and committing one to Jesus Christ through worship and service.
And finally I believe I am committing myself in following Jesus Christ with all of my heart when I weekly in our Sundays services partake of the Sacrament of our Lord and Savior. These are the sacramental prayers of that service which is the highlight and the most important aspect in my worship every week:
O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this bread to the souls of all those who partake of it, that they may eat in remembrance of the body of thy Son, and witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they are willing to take upon them the name of thy Son, and always remember him and keep his commandments which he has given them; that they may always have his Spirit to be with them. Amen
O God, the Eternal Father, we ask thee in the name of thy Son, Jesus Christ, to bless and sanctify this wine to the souls of all those who drink of it, that they may do it in remembrance of the blood of thy Son, which was shed for them; that they may witness unto thee, O God, the Eternal Father, that they do always remember him, that they may have his Spirit to be with them. Amen
BTTT
Kind of a long post there MHGinTN. Thanks for the ping. Whew, long thread to read through. Should be interesting to see what raised the dust.