Posted on 04/04/2007 9:42:54 AM PDT by balch3
Once again, it's me and Ralph Peters on the same wavelength, deploring the cowardice of the British sailors and marines kidnapped by Iran. When it happened, I said I hoped the ones who'd shamed their country would be court-martialed on return to Blighty, and given dishonorable discharges after a couple years breaking rocks in the Outer Hebrides (which, believe me—I've been there—have a LOT of rocks). Now, I confess, I wouldn't shed a tear if some worse fate befell them.
The only coherent response I get to these sentiments is: "How do you know what they've been through? How would YOU stand up?" To which the obvious reply is the one Dr. Johnson gave in some similar case: "I may criticize a carpenter who makes me a bad table, though I cannot make a table myself. It is not my job to make tables." It is the job of a Royal Marine to fight, and if necessary suffer and die, for his country. They know that when they go in. It's what they are told! I nurse a quiet hope that if put to the test, I would stand up as well as any Marine. Whether or not I would, however, is irrelevant. Whether or not I could stand up well to torture, I expect Marines to.
And in any case, there was no evidence of torture or mistreatment in any of the filmed cases I have seen. They look just fine. You can't fake that. The girl sailor had that headscarf on within hours. From what I've heard of torture, even weaker cases can hold out for a few days.
(Excerpt) Read more at corner.nationalreview.com ...
It is my impression also, however I have no idea if there is a "CODE of CONDUCT" for captured British military or even if the one we knew existed......indeed exists today in our military.
Someone out there in FR land should know.
Let’s wait and learn what really happened to those 15 marines before we call them names. It will all come out in a few days or hours. Until then, lets give these captives a benefit of a doubt.
one thing IS certain....they will receive a VICTIMS welcome home, regardless of the point of view of the observer or British politician......I am quite willing to believe almost anything in terms of the complete truth......up to and including the possibility that this ENTIRE thing was staged from before the gitgo.....it is just too too bizzare to not include that as a possibility.
By Bill Gertz
THE WASHINGTON TIMES
April 4, 2007
"While technically not at war with Britain, Iran is required to follow international law in holding detainees, according to the International Committee of the Red Cross (ICRC).
"According to the ICRC, captured combatants or civilians detained by an "adverse party" are entitled to respect for their lives, their dignity and "their personal rights and their political, religious and other convictions."
"The ICRC also states that they are to be protected against violence and allowed to communicate with families and 'must enjoy basic judicial guarantees.'"
"Robert L. Maginnis, a retired Army officer, said the American code of conduct is clear: Troops and officers will never surrender if they still have the means to resist.
"Had the captured sailors and marines been Americans, they should have fought and, if necessary, died resisting," Mr. Maginnis said. "Of course, that's likely why the Iranians went after Brits and not Americans."(emph. added).
Uh-oh. Any delay is worrisome.
What I know is that the "apologies" and hijab came in a very short amount of time, and were accompanied by no visible evidence of harm or inconvenience. So let's just say that if you're right about the coercion, it must have been a very special and effective sort of coercion, and indeed, I'm interested to hear it described.
“Live for something rather than die for nothing.”
Oh crap! I’ve had the news on in the background waiting to hear if they were released yet. Dang. Thanks for that update, prairie.
I’m not sure what news source is saying this. Eurotwit, who’s claiming it’s tomorrow now? Thanks.
Britain is in a shooting war with Iran?
(US) Code of Conduct In-Depth
October 7, 2005
AR 350–30
Code of Conduct, Survival, Evasion, Resistance, and Escape (SERE) Training
This revision—
o Adds responsibilities for maintaining records for levels B and C SERE
training and for matters pertaining to U. S. military personnel in detention,
hostage, or captivity situations (chap 1).Level B training and procedures
have been changed for maintaining records for levels A, B, and c (paras 3-5 and
3-6).
o Implements DOD Directive 1300.7 which changes the training guidance for Code
of Conduct training (chap 4) to coincide with DOD Directive 1300.7, December
1984.
o Adds chapter 5 to provide guidance for soldiers in captive, hostage, or
detention situations.
http://72.14.203.104/search?q=cache:OMVqhU5jHfsJ:www.fas.org/irp/doddir/army/ar350-30.pdf+AR+350-30&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=3&gl=us&client=firefox-a
It wouldn’t surprise me at all if they started playing games.
Me neither, not a bit. Supposedly I’manutjob is to release them as an Easter “gift”. Tolerant muslim that he is of course.
It’s 3-4 days until Sunday depending on where you are on the planet.
Personally, I will take someones life over face-saving, any day, as I bet they and their families do too. What good comes of being brave and dead, when the next person reads that script, or if they all end up brave and dead?
Who the hell is this jerk?
I think he is talking big, but has never been in a position to show that he would do what he expects these people to do. It's very easy to tell others they should jeopardize their lives when one hasn't bothered to put himself in a position to do so.
But does that include all the "apologies", wearing the hijab, etc.?
I don't know. But if they've told them to surrender rather than fight, it is highly unlikely they would then tell them to behave in captivity in such a way as to endanger the lives they were previously ordered to try to save. To claim that they were expected to do so is ludicrous.
And again, that's not an argument for anything either way.
It's pointing out the hypocrisy of demanding that others put their lives at risk while sitting comfortably and safely behind a keyboard.
“Only when evasion by an individual is impossible and further fighting would lead only to death with no significant loss of the enemy should only consider surrender. With all reasonable means of resistance exhausted and with certain death the only alternative, capture does not imply dishonor.”
They do appear more “Morris” than “Jack.”
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