I would say that the 3 men on the right, are not as happy, as the others appear to be...
Posted on 04/04/2007 9:42:54 AM PDT by balch3
Once again, it's me and Ralph Peters on the same wavelength, deploring the cowardice of the British sailors and marines kidnapped by Iran. When it happened, I said I hoped the ones who'd shamed their country would be court-martialed on return to Blighty, and given dishonorable discharges after a couple years breaking rocks in the Outer Hebrides (which, believe me—I've been there—have a LOT of rocks). Now, I confess, I wouldn't shed a tear if some worse fate befell them.
The only coherent response I get to these sentiments is: "How do you know what they've been through? How would YOU stand up?" To which the obvious reply is the one Dr. Johnson gave in some similar case: "I may criticize a carpenter who makes me a bad table, though I cannot make a table myself. It is not my job to make tables." It is the job of a Royal Marine to fight, and if necessary suffer and die, for his country. They know that when they go in. It's what they are told! I nurse a quiet hope that if put to the test, I would stand up as well as any Marine. Whether or not I would, however, is irrelevant. Whether or not I could stand up well to torture, I expect Marines to.
And in any case, there was no evidence of torture or mistreatment in any of the filmed cases I have seen. They look just fine. You can't fake that. The girl sailor had that headscarf on within hours. From what I've heard of torture, even weaker cases can hold out for a few days.
(Excerpt) Read more at corner.nationalreview.com ...
This event has certainly ruined my idea of what a Royal Marine is.
Fine, we don’t KNOW what happened. But as I’ve said, what we do KNOW is not encouraging vis-a-vis the unwimpiness of the soldiers (if not following “capitulate” orders), or their leaders (if such orders were given), or both.
What an A$$#0LE.
101st Fighting Keyboardists
you are mistaking that one little snip you removed from a DISCUSSION of the Code as BEING part of the Code
It is not.
If you haven't a clue, then you obviously don't know much about the Iranian government or radical Islamics.
One which does nothing whatsoever to refute the point Derb was making.
Oh, you are refering to his pre-judgment of people he knows nothing about, operating under orders he knows nothing about, who have gone through things he knows nothing about?
Funny how you have a problem with my arguments which are based on the information currently available, but you accept his pre-judgment which doesn't fit the information available.
It was taken as propaganda by some, empowering by the surrenderist types by the other so regards to what is wrong with what the soldiers said, it further illuminates how many will side with Iran.
And it also adds to fear of Iran, especially by states that can’t hope to face off against them in a military dispute. If the West is retreating in the face of Iranian hostage taking, then what hope do the Gulf States have?
This is merely one wrinkle of what is wrong with what the UK soldiers said.
Others will surely add to the impact of such a disgrace.
I’m not making a determinative judgement, just highlighting some points in light of this based on your question.
I would say that the 3 men on the right, are not as happy, as the others appear to be...
Assuming that you know about Rules Of Engagement, how they’re applied to different conflicts and why, you would know that there is always a reason behind them.
Yes, maybe a theory that seems paper thing on the surface, but i’ll go with my hunch. It maybe a Brit motive, maybe not, but i’ll stick with that belief at the moment till proved otherwise......
You think Patton would have let Iranians take him without firing a shot?
Patton took the offensive. Patton made the the other poor bastard die first.
So much for “Royal Marines”.
I bet we won't. During Desert Storm a US female helicopter pilot was shotdown & abused (Rape & refusal of medical treatment) & nothing much got said about it in the MSM. It wasn't in her interests to talk about it (career officer); nor the MSM (Women in Combat is something they favor).
It'll be interesting to see the kinds of questions that get asked so as to avoid airing any unpleasantries.
Every discussion of the code I’ve seen details that in the case where you’re up shit-creek without a paddle, you’re considered “Captured” and not “Surrendered”. Semantics really, but going out with guns blazing is an invention of Hollywood, not reality.
Well don’t let it.
What is worth pointing out, that I don’t believe has been on this thread, is that the Royal Marine contingent - which incidentally is less than half - have so far, not been ‘paraded’. The ‘blabbers’ have been the RN fellas.....
I’m sure the emphasis is more on the “royal” part than the “marines” ;)
You served then???
I do suspect that this batch was treated better. Just a feeling. Last time the propaganda videos were also less pleasent. They were paraded around blindfolded and such.
Anyways. Enough Iran shenanigans for me to day.
Solskjaer starts up front with Rooney for Manchester United versus Roma and Totti.
Cheers.
Of course there is. However a high-up Brit admiral (IIRC) stated in at least one publication that the ROE regarding Iran were to avoid escalation.
I've also read these ROE are actually UN ROE that Britain has accepted. The responsibility for the ROE it imposes is Britains of course regardless of where they originated, but I'm thinking Britain is mostly trying to avoid being the cause or being accused of being the cause of an international conflict through provocation.
The same rules don't apply to Iran, obviously...
If you're sitting in a zodiac with nothing but light shoulder weapons & pistols, and you get surrounded by patrol boats mounting heavy machine guns, the prudent thing to do is surrender or call on the support of your frigate. Since no help was forthcoming they did the only thing they could do -- remember they couldn't really inflict any casualties on the Iranians in the process (you can't argue with Ma Deuce).
The Royal Marines are a tough outfit, but there weren't raised to be Kamikaze.
Here I thought I was being clever.
Personally, I like the English, and I have been to England a number of times.
I hate to see it fade, but it is fading and has been for sometime. These things do not happen overnight, but the next chapter after this is surely being written as we type.
The England of strenght and courage is no more. Raise a glass Albion and toast the past.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.