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To: jatopilot99
What Elder Talamge was simply saying is that through the Resurrection, all men, good and bad, will rise again and be resurrected. "For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive."

But, in our risen state, we shall also be judged of God and based on our acceptance of Christ's atonement for sin, our eternal destiny will be determined.

In order to return to our Father in Heaven and "go to Heaven", we teach that we must, as a free will decision of our own, accept Christ's atonement. No other path will do, nothing else will suffice...He must become our personal Saviour.

Most of christendom teaches that there is indeed a pre-set condition for the Atonement of individual sins to be effective, and that is acceptance of the Lord's atonement and sacrifice.

The LDS Church teaches this. We believe that a person who sincerely does so will also have the desirte to do as Christ taught..."if ye love me, keep my commandments"...but it is critical not to get the horse before the cart in that regard. Christ's atonement saves, and then we follow His will.

Anyhow, these tennants are basic Christian tennants and though interpretation and knowledge about other principles varies, the essential teaching that Jesus Christ is our Lord and Redeemer, and that we must accept His sacrifice and redemption and atonement in our lives in order to return to God, and that a person who sincerely does so will take upon them His countenance and image and try to live as he lived...that is the same, and that is the essence of what it means to be a Christian.

119 posted on 03/31/2007 8:01:44 PM PDT by Jeff Head (Freedom is not free...never has been, never will be (www.dragonsfuryseries.com))
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To: Jeff Head

Jeff, thanks for the thought out response.

Your discussion is misleading, however. You are intertwining the idea of "going to Heaven" and the idea of "returning to Heavenly Father", which you and I both know are two different concepts in the Mormon doctrine.

According to Mormon doctrine, almost everyone will go to Heaven, but it is only the ones who fulfill all of the ordinances that will be exalted and return to Heavenly Father on the Celestial Plane of Heaven.

Apostle Talmage is not referring to Exaltation, he is referring to Salvation (i.e. at least making it to the Telestial Plane [lowest level of Heaven]), and he is saying that that Salvation is dependent upon our own compliance to the laws and ordinances of God.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the law so that we would not have to (because we could not). Christ told us not to rely on our own works or attempts to fulfill the law because we are destined to failure in that. But instead rely upon His Grace.

Let me give you a practical example. If a Bishop in the church performs a Baptism and the Bishop has been leading a sin-filled life (for example, let's say that he embezzled some money from his workplace). Then according to Mormon doctrine, the Power of the Priesthood would be removed from him. So, since the Bishop just got through Baptizing a person, and the Power of the Priesthood wasn't with him at the time, what of the person who was Baptized? The Baptism was invalid, yet this person who received the Baptism is not aware of the Bishop's sinful life and subsequent revocation of the Power of the Priesthood.

That example can apply to any person who claims the Priesthood, because we are all sinners, and the Power of the Priesthood cannot be with people in sin. That is why we must rely on God's Grace through Jesus Christ and not through men who claim to wield the power of the priesthood that Jesus Christ held.

My point is that these men who think they hold the Priesthood and are thereby fulfilling the CONDITIONS of salvation as espoused by Apostle Talmage are failing in those CONDITIONS and, at the same time, rejecting the Grace of Christ that says that we don't need to be subject to those conditions.


123 posted on 03/31/2007 8:49:59 PM PDT by jatopilot99 (Mitt Romney is pro-abortion, pro-gay, and pro-euthanasia!)
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