You believe that God didn't need a creator, that he created himself.
Simply saying, "well bad things/good people blah blah blah" doesn't cut it. If you agree that there is an order to the universe, to our solar system, to our planet, to our very DNA, then you have to agree that there is One who directed these things to their right order.
You're saying that it's impossible for the universe to have things of advanced structure randomly, but you believe that a creator has/had advanced structure-- far more advanced than anything we are aware of, if you're right-- randomly and out of nothing. Human DNA's existence is much more probable than God DNA (or whatever is his structure).
If there is no right order, there is no God, and thus, by definition, no moral guidelines by which man should bother conducting himself.
Basic golden rule morality is necessary for creating a society (keeping the social contract) and it's actually a system that is beneficial to the person and not just to others-- as it's sort of an insurance policy (be good to others, treat them the way you want to be treated in case you need to be treated nicely because you're in a bind). It's symbiotic. These relationships are found in nature, and those organisms don't believe in God.
What could be a more just dessert for bad people than ETERNAL punishment? You seem to want less than that.
My point was that people want to believe that bad people will be tortured forever, but the reason for believing that is because of a desire and not reason or any facts. Just because you want something to be true, that isn't evidence that it is true. People are just unhappy with the truth sometimes. The universe doesn't owe us justice or anything. In fact, the evidence suggests that since the known world operates in such a way that things we wished wouldn't happen, do in fact happen, that we should not assume that things are different in some other life created by the same entity. Why would the rules be different? If you believe in the universe having perfect order, that would be order. As an aside, the universe and the Earth and humans have many flaws-- which would seem to trim away evidence for any intelligent design.
That's strange. Hope is a selfish motivation? Greed and lust and jealousy and envy and pride are all selfish motivation, but how did you come up with hope as a selfish motivation? It IS possible to love your enemies, and it IS possible to have hopes for them when you know you will receive nothing in return.
What I meant is that, like the kid who believes in Santa Claus because he wants the presents on Christmas morning (which is a reason for belief based on selfishness and not on reason or evidence), the same applies to hope. Hope is something that makes us feel good, like a drug. People don't want to give up that drug because they like how they feel when they use it. It doesn't mean that using that drug is the best course of action. It's easy to believe in hope because it gives you a high.
If Jessica is in heaven, what greater hope can there be? Projecting your atheistic views on Jessica Lunsford is mighty selfish on your own part, don'tcha think? It gives you greater validation of your own views to use her terrible death as a crutch for your despair.
If God wanted Jessica dead, he could have used a softer touch. He killed a fly with a sledgehammer. I'm not at all in despair, actually. I'm a very happy and upbeat person.
He didn't create Himself. He existed always.
You're saying that it's impossible for the universe to have things of advanced structure randomly, but you believe that a creator has/had advanced structure-- far more advanced than anything we are aware of, if you're right-- randomly and out of nothing. Human DNA's existence is much more probable than God DNA (or whatever is his structure).
Again. It's a mystery. But that mystery is made evident to us in the advanced order of the universe. Even randomness begs for a mover. There has to be a first mover. Even if someone says, "physics is the mover" - well, the laws of physics didn't come into being on their own. It's inescapable. Every progression goes back to a first mover. That first mover is the Supreme Being, and no matter how hard one tries, He can't be erased from the equation because we can't wrap our minds around His eternal existence.
Basic golden rule morality is necessary for creating a society (keeping the social contract) and it's actually a system that is beneficial to the person and not just to others-- as it's sort of an insurance policy (be good to others, treat them the way you want to be treated in case you need to be treated nicely because you're in a bind). It's symbiotic. These relationships are found in nature, and those organisms don't believe in God.
Being kind to your neighbor and loving your enemy is found in nature? What about the food chain?
My point was that people want to believe that bad people will be tortured forever, but the reason for believing that is because of a desire and not reason or any facts.
Then you're saying there is no order in the universe at all. If you agree that there is order in the universe, then you must believe that there is justice, since justice is what constantly maintains order. That's all the reason necessary.
The universe doesn't owe us justice or anything. In fact, the evidence suggests that since the known world operates in such a way that things we wished wouldn't happen, do in fact happen, that we should not assume that things are different in some other life created by the same entity.
The universe owes it to itself. Since we are part of that universe, we are subjected to that justice. The world acts in a certain way because of our free will decisions to disrupt order and justice - as nations and as individuals.
the universe and the Earth and humans have many flaws
Not when they act as they are rightfully ordered to. The planets obey the laws of nature, which are put into motion by the perfect will of God. Man chooses not to do the will of God - chooses to disrupt the order. God will not stop man from doing so, and justice dictates that comfort be replaced with natural suffering (the effect of disorder manifested internally or externally) to make amends.
People are just unhappy with the truth sometimes.
Because the truth often impedes our selfish aims.
What I meant is that, like the kid who believes in Santa Claus because he wants the presents on Christmas morning (which is a reason for belief based on selfishness and not on reason or evidence), the same applies to hope.
You're comparing the fantastic, refutable belief of a child not having the developed reason of an adult, to thousands of years of the greatest minds the earth has known who all affirm and believe in a Supreme Being?
Hope is something that makes us feel good, like a drug.
But how does that refute the existence of God? Hope, when rightly ordered, hopes for the will of God, whether it brings wealth, poverty, health, sickness, good times, or bad. Rightly ordered hope is denial of self. Christianity is the answer to millenia of human beings hoping only for their own comfort. If Christianity were an approval of the human condition, it would be a farce. The human condition comes as a result of our desire to destroy order for our own perceived benefit (homosexuality, divorce, gluttony, abortion, greed, etc.)
If God wanted Jessica dead, he could have used a softer touch.
God didn't want her dead. The free will of humanity made it possible. The free will of those who constructed the justice system. The free will of those who ignored the killer in their midst. Not Jessica's free will - but the society that, if rightly ordered, would have protected her.