Terri Schiavo's Next to Last Day: A Look Back, "I Want to Live"

Life News ^ | 3/30/07 | Steven Ertelt

[T'wit]

>> The autopsy showed she was blind. That is hard physical evidence to the hyperbole being shouted out here on FR.

An autopsy can't prove cortical blindness any more than it can prove PVS. You have to do clinical diagnosis on a living patient. Dr. Thomas Hejkal, who has a doctorate in ophthalmology, said that the autopsy certainly indicated that Terri had some degree of visual deficit [which everyone acknowledged anyway], but "cortical blindness could only be diagnosed by assessing her visual function while she was living."

Terri's visual function was, in fact, clinically assessed while she was alive. The "hard physical evidence" is actually opposite to your claim. She did have some vision, though limited. Three (Maxfield, Hammesfahr, Cranford) of the five court-appointed doctors tested her and found that she was sighted. These were the three examinations that were videotaped. Dr. Cranford was one of Michael's doctors. On the tape you can hear him compliment Terri for tracking, and say, "You can see a little, can't you?" Drs. Maxfield and Hammesfahr did far more extensive testing and also affirmed that she had (limited) sight.

An autopsy, in contrast, can only make an educated postmortem guess as to how visually handicapped she was while alive. It's impossible to test functionality back to when she was alive.

Drs. Hammesfahr and Maxfield contested the M.E.'s statement about Terri being cortically blind, observing that it was contradicted by their clinical testing. The discrepancy could be explained innocently if cortical blindness was the result of the dehydration process; otherwise it had to be a data error by Dr. Thogmartin.

There is a bit of anecdotal evidence as well, if that is of interest. Terri's visitors (family, lawyers, priests) said that Terri had use of her eyes until two or three days before she died. Then her eyes started to bleed. She must have been blind at that point. They said her eyes darted constantly from side to side. It's as if she were searching desperately for light -- light that had been stolen away.

[dbehsman]

Where to begin? Sigh...

Well, let's get the first thing out of the way. In post #225 you said:

I am tired of playing with the Taliban wing of FR. Good bye.

I thought you headed off for greener pastures. I thought with the way that you ended the conversation, that you'd finally had all you could take. Now you're back again. You shot off an unwarranted and absolutely false insult and then cut off debate. That type of thing may work in high school or with the media, but it doesn't work well here. If you really want to talk about this, then let's talk.

If this same situation comes along where the court finds the person to be PVS, ...

The court is going to play doctor now? How droll.

...and that she has expressed her wishes not to live in such a condition, by clear and convincing evidence, then the result will be the same.

Sure, if you want to commit suicide, go ahead.

The big problem with the Schiavo execution, was the FACT that nobody could say for certain what Terri would have wanted. The court (or should I now say the doctor with a gavel?) decided to err on the side of death. Just like you too. The prognosis was ambiguous and the evidence was ambiguous. The decision? Let's kill Terri in the slowest and cruelest way possible.

This is not because anyone wishes death on a person but rather that reasonable people will abide by the wishes of the person.

No. First of all, Terri's wishes were not known. Secondly, approximately 70% of the American population CHOSE to execute Terri.

Every human being is given a choice in life. They can either commit good or evil. YOU and your fellow deathbots deliberately chose to starve to death an innocent woman. You and your fellow deathbots chose to commit and/or support evil. You were given a very clear choice, and you made the decision.

If you are so opposed to what happened in this case, why don’t you do anything about it instead of complaining and taking your vitriol out on others.

MY vitriol? An innocent woman was executed in one of the slowest and cruelest ways known to man. I think it is vile, disgusting, and wicked. And you're upset because my denouncements are caustic?

You seem to have a major problem with the way the law reads on this issue. Yet I don’t see you or anyone trying to change it. Ie: require the wishes be in writing or change the definition of artificial life support.Would either of those changes in the law satisfy you?

I would like to introduce you to a section of the law that I'm sure you never heard of before. It is something called the eighth amendment to the United States Constitution. It reads as follows:

Excessive bail shall not be required, nor excessive fines imposed, nor cruel and unusual punishments inflicted.
(emphasis mine)

The law does not need to be changed, the law just needs to be followed.

The people who supported the parents will have much more credibility when they stop moaning and feeling sorry for themselves and try to do something about what they are complaining about.

There are two different things that I would like to address on this matter. First, approximately 70% of the American population decided to execute Terri Schiavo. There were two different groups of people who gave two different points of view: the Evangelical Christians, and the establishment media. Approximately 70% of the American population have decided to listen to the media and disregard the Evangelicals. Furthermore, they decided that Terri and people like Terri are less than human. They are considered subhuman. This is similar to how slaves were viewed over 150 years ago. Except that slaves were treated more humanely. The abolition movement had to first convince the majority of the population that slaves were fully human and deserving of their rights. This is what we (the Terribots) have to do. This is not going to happen overnight. Secondly, if we were to start to press for a change in the law, when what is really needed is a change in heart, we would end up with the liberals and the libertarians shrieking that the Evangelical Christians are "just like the Taliban", etc. We would get nowhere. We have to change peoples minds first, which is what we're trying to do here on FreeRepublic, and then elsewhere on the net.

Frankly, at this point, you have zero credibility with myself and the vast vast majority of the American public.

We already have zero credibility with the majority of the American public. We only can move up.

Now, to get a little personal here, I could care less if I have any respect or credibility from you. YOU are the one who has avoided answering questions (post #206), slandered us (post #225), and then cut and run from debate (post #225). And you then think that I'm worried about how much credibility you ascribe to me? Please.

[Terriergal]

I don’t understand the FR component that thinks this was ‘something the government should have stayed out of’ — when the government was the one that got involved to KILL her off. God, have mercy on us~!

[Terriergal]

Michael wouldn’t allow video cameras anymore, as I recall.

Regardless, her family (not her estranged husband who should legally have had NO say) wanted to take care of her as best they could until her natural death. The state got involved and said instead that she should die because her husband had found a replacement warm body to sleep with and didn’t want to take care of her anymore.

[Terriergal]

As I recall from some crevo threads, RadioAstronomer doesn’t think Creation happened either, because he wasn’t there to witness it and because lots of so-called scientific minds agree with him.

It’s amazing how atheists can’t see their hand afore their face. It’s not surprising he should espouse Darwinian ethics here.

[Terriergal]

May God have mercy on you if you’re ever made helpless in this life.

[Terriergal]

When everything is said, the medical examiner's report substantiates that the court system did its job well in handling Terri's case.

Yeah that's why it took her so long to die. I get it now.

[Terriergal]

You're insane.

An eloquent argument if I ever did hear one!

[Terriergal]

I do recall you are kinda pro death aren’t you? Go preach your eugenics somewhere else. Like DU.

[Terriergal]

GMTA

[Terriergal]

The hysteria shown by some religious conservatives over this issue and their willingness to call in Big Brother as an ally in their denigration

Excuse me? Didn't BIG BROTHER order her death? Didn't the family want to take care of her (except one, her estranged hubby?) Talk about disconnect from reality.

[Terriergal]

which is how Michael started making babies out of wedlock with Jodi Centonze.

Didn't she work for the firm that was handling his case too?

[Terriergal]

Well, certainly a lot of "Christians" who don't seem to actually believe in eternal life nor the soul, and think it is somehow an act of mercy to keep one chained for decades to a useless physical form. Like atheists, they seem to believe our brief physical incarnations on Earth are the only lives we have.

Yeah so why don't we just kill everyone and get us all there quicker? D'oh! /sarcasm

[Terriergal]

Whatever high, moral and for that matter Godly ground you may have had prior to that statement was eroded away when you wrote that.

Do you ever listen to Rush Limbaugh, Ann Coulter, or Sean Hannity?

[Terriergal]

Yeah, wagglebee. Shame on you for using sarcasm. You should always be minnesota-nice in the face of evil. Never mind that Elijah taunted the prophets of Baal... that Christ called the pharisees vipers and open sepulchres full of dead men’s bones. You ought to be held to a higher standard of behavior than Christ.

[Terriergal]

I try to avoid this topic,

Coulda fooled us!

[Terriergal]

Big Government interfering in what appears to the public to be personal life decisions (regardless of the unprovable criminality of the husband) is a sure loser in any election campaign.

Yeah like the defeat of Republicans this past fall was because they weren't liberal enough.

[Terriergal]

The lies are repeated over and over and, like I said on another thread, the obsession with her is almost beyond explanation.

Uh... maybe because we actually care about people who may be considered a practical inconvenience... like old people and unborn babies. Never mind, go take your soma.

[Terriergal]

There is no end to the irony that it is those who thump their chest the loudest, and proclaim their so called "faith" the most...are the ones who will bear false witness against anyone and everyone who might disagree with them.

The truth speaks for itself. If you choose to ignore it, there's nothing I can do to make you see it.

[Terriergal]

There was simply not enough of her brain left for her to have formed a cogent thought.

Kinda like the girl born with anencephaly who is a happy little Iyes, disabled as I recall) girl now...even though her mother's doctor told her to abort.