Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

To: pgyanke
The Church recognizes the voice of the Holy Spirit in three ways:

- Scripture
- Tradition (primarily the Liturgy)
- Magisterium (the Church's teachings)

Protestants have (rashly) council/papal teachings ever since Worms, when Eck argued that they trumped the plain and common teaching of Scripture (ok, it is an oversimplification). Both Catholics and Protestants have suffered for this, albeit in different ways.

It is important to note that even in the most vicious rants against the papacy, Calvin, Luther, et. al, never made the jump that many later reformers/puritans did and taught that the Roman Catholic church was not a part of the body of Christ.

I think you guys should renounce the 9th and 12th sections of Trent. That is the real sticking point for most Protestants, including myself. We believe that all of salvation, including our good works which evidence it, are ALL a pure gift of God, and that our good works play no part whatsoever in our legal justification before God. We in no way "cooperate" with God by working out an infused righteousness in order to merit favor with God. That favor with God comes solely and singly on the basis of an imputed righteousness which I receive by faith as a gift. Any good works which proceed from this are evidences (although no less gifts!) of my legal standing. They do not add to it in any shape manner or form. Until you guys can quit anathematizing me over that, we remain at odds over the nature of the gospel itself. I will not say that no one who affirms Trent can be a true Christian, but I will say that no one who affirms WHAT TRENT CLEARLY SEEMS TO ME TO TEACH can be a true Christian. My understanding may be deficient, but I cannot buy into any system where our salvation is divided between God's activity and ours.

That said, I believe that there are many regenerate Roman Catholics who........, let us just say that their understanding of Trent is different than mine.

185 posted on 03/27/2007 3:21:51 PM PDT by DreamsofPolycarp (Ron Paul in '08)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 171 | View Replies ]


To: DreamsofPolycarp
I think you guys should renounce the 9th and 12th sections of Trent.

I assume you mean these:

CANON IX.-If any one saith, that by faith alone the impious is justified; in such wise as to mean, that nothing else is required to co-operate in order to the obtaining the grace of Justification, and that it is not in any way necessary, that he be prepared and disposed by the movement of his own will; let him be anathema.

CANON XII.-If any one saith, that justifying faith is nothing else but confidence in the divine mercy which remits sins for Christ's sake; or, that this confidence alone is that whereby we are justified; let him be anathema.

You take these Canons out of context if you don't look at them in the light of the preceding paragraph (which is long and uncut and I apologize in advance for how this will look...):

CHAPTER XVI.
On the fruit of Justification, that is, on the merit of good works, and on the nature of that merit.

Before men, therefore, who have been justified in this manner,-whether they have preserved uninterruptedly the grace received, or whether they have recovered it when lost,-are to be set the words of the Apostle: Abound in every good work, knowing that your labour is not in vain in the Lord; for God is not unjust, that he should forget your work, and the love which you have shown in his name; and, do not lose your confidence, which hath a great reward. And, for this cause, life eternal is to be proposed to those working well unto the end, and hoping in God, both as a grace mercifully promised to the sons of God through Jesus Christ, and as a reward which is according to the promise of God Himself, to be faithfully rendered to their good works and merits. For this is that crown of justice which the Apostle declared was, after his fight and course, laid up for him, to be rendered to him by the just judge, and not only to him, but also to all that love his coming. For, whereas Jesus Christ Himself continually infuses his virtue into the said justified,-as the head into the members, and the vine into the branches,-and this virtue always precedes and accompanies and follows their good works, which without it could not in any wise be pleasing and meritorious before God,-we must believe that nothing further is wanting to the justified, to prevent their being accounted to have, by those very works which have been done in God, fully satisfied the divine law according to the state of this life, and to have truly merited eternal life, to be obtained also in its (due) time, if so be, however, that they depart in grace: seeing that Christ, our Saviour, saith: If any one shall drink of the water that I will give him, he shall not thirst for ever; but it shall become in him a fountain of water springing up unto life everlasting. Thus, neither is our own justice established as our own as from ourselves; nor is the justice of God ignored or repudiated: for that justice which is called ours, because that we are justified from its being inherent in us, that same is (the justice) of God, because that it is infused into us of God, through the merit of Christ. Neither is this to be omitted,-that although, in the sacred writings, so much is attributed to good works, that Christ promises, that even he that shall give a drink of cold water to one of his least ones, shall not lose his reward; and the Apostle testifies that, That which is at present momentary and light of our tribulation, worketh for us above measure exceedingly an eternal weight of glory; nevertheless God forbid that a Christian should either trust or glory in himself, and not in the Lord, whose bounty towards all men is so great, that He will have the things which are His own gifts be their merits. And forasmuch as in many things we all offend, each one ought to have before his eyes, as well the severity and judgment, as the mercy and goodness (of God); neither ought any one to judge himself, even though he be not conscious to himself of anything; because the whole life of man is to be examined and judged, not by the judgment of man, but of God, who will bring to light the hidden things of darkness, and will make manifest the counsels of the hearts, and then shall every man have praise from God, who, as it is written, will render to every man according to his works. After this Catholic doctrine on Justification, which whoso receiveth not faithfully and firmly cannot be justified, it hath seemed good to the holy Synod to subjoin these canons, that all may know not only what they ought to hold and follow, but also what to avoid and shun.

It seems to me that the good Bishops were trying to reconcile the numerous mentions of God's graciousness for our good works to the Protestant idea that good works account for nothing in the plan of salvation (Rev 22:12 for one). Again, perspective... if we are God's children and we are born again into His Family... then Baptism is our birth, not our maturity in the faith. There is more to do and learn as we are raised in the faith.

Also, belief and faith are action words with God. Abraham walked faithfully with God for decades before God demanded his son as a sacrifice. Only after drawing back the knife did God make His Covenant with Abraham. It is not enough to believe who Christ is... if you believe, you will follow Him and do as He commanded. God, as a just and merciful Father, will reward your faithfulness to Him.

235 posted on 03/28/2007 8:20:41 AM PDT by pgyanke (RUDY GIULIANI 2008 - BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO COMPROMISE YOUR PRINCIPLES ANYWAY... WHY WAIT?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 185 | View Replies ]

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article


FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson