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To: Campion

>>Nonsense. Only those who are saved even get to purgatory, so nobody can "work their way into salvation" there.<<

Chapter and verse please.

Through the complete canon of scripture, God only speaks of heaven and hell. There are only two paths.

Sheep or goat, wheat or tare, light or dark, hot or cold. Purgatory is akin to lukewarmth - the very thing that is "spewed out" in revelation.

The RCC uses purgatory to make people feel better about their sins. It is damnable heresy, and has ushered hundreds of millions into the maw of hell through it's teachings.

I love what Spurgeon has to say about it:

"It is held that there are some who die who are believers,
but who are not quite purified from sin, and in an after
state they must undergo a purgatorial quarantine to be
purged by fire, so that they may become quite complete.
Beloved, when the thief died on the cross he had but
just believed, and had never done a single good work,
but where did he go to? Well, he ought to have gone to
purgatory by rights, if ever anybody did, but instead of
that the Savior said to him, "Today you shall be with
me in Paradise." Why? Because the ground of the man's
admission into Paradise was perfect. The grounds of
his admission there was Christ's work, and that is how
you and I will get into heaven, because Christ's work
is finished. The thief did not go down to purgatory,
nor, blessed be his name, neither shall you nor I if
we trust in the finished work of the Lord Jesus."

Either Christ's atonement is satisfactory and complete, or it isn't. You can't have it both ways.


108 posted on 03/27/2007 12:56:40 PM PDT by ItsOurTimeNow ("All that hath life and breath, come now with praises before Him.")
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To: ItsOurTimeNow
Chapter and verse please.

With pleasure:

John 21: 25 But there are also many other things which Jesus did; were every one of them to be written, I suppose that the world itself could not contain the books that would be written.

2 Thess 2:15 So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught by us, either by word of mouth or by letter.

Galatians 1:8 But even if we, or an angel from heaven, should preach to you a gospel contrary to that which we preached to you, let him be accursed.

2 John 1:12 Though I have much to write to you, I would rather not use paper and ink, but I hope to come to see you and talk with you face to face, so that our joy may be complete.

Purgatory exists in Sacred Tradition -- committed to the apostles by our Lord, as scripture records, and faithfully handed down by them. Scripture itself is witness that a teaching doesn't have to be explicit in scripture to be authentic.

Romans 10: 15 And how can men preach unless they are sent?

Jesus sent the apostles. Who sent you, or those who taught you?

145 posted on 03/27/2007 1:27:29 PM PDT by Romulus (Quomodo sedet sola civitas plena populo.)
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To: ItsOurTimeNow

As you like to say, "Chapter and verse, please."

IMHO, Purgatory is not so much a place as an event. The thief you mention had his purgatory event on the cross when he recognized his failure and asked for Christ's salvation before he died. Many people do not get similar opportunities while alive and thus are allowed them after death.

As has been noted here before, Christ's salvation is a gift to all, and I think we will be surprised (and maybe disappointed) about the people we may meet in heaven. I only pray that I am not one of the vineyard workers who complain that the late comers have received the same wage as I.


147 posted on 03/27/2007 1:31:32 PM PDT by beancounter13
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To: ItsOurTimeNow

"We cannot go on as some churches do without converts. We cannot, we will not, we must not, we dare not. Souls must be converted here. And if there be not many born to Christ, may the Lord grant to me that I might sleep in the tomb and be heard no more. Better indeed for us to die than to live if souls be not saved. If sinners will be damned, at least let them leap to hell over our bodies, and if they perish, let them perish with our arms around their knees imploring them to stay. If hell must be filled, at least let it be filled in the teeth of our exertions, and let no one go there unwarned or unprayed for."

Charles Haddon Spurgeon


178 posted on 03/27/2007 2:17:57 PM PDT by Rightly Biased (Courage is not the lack of fear it is acting in spite of it<><)
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To: ItsOurTimeNow
Through the complete canon of scripture, God only speaks of heaven and hell.

Oh, really? Then why does St. Paul speak of those "saved as through fire" in 1 Corinthians 3 ??

The RCC uses purgatory to make people feel better about their sins.

Wrong.

I love what Spurgeon has to say

Yes, I'm sure you do, whilst simultaneously claiming you go by "the Bible alone". There is no "Book of Spurgeon" in my Bible, so why should I pay the slightest respect to the opinion of a mere man who hasn't the tiniest shred of God-given authority to teach me?

Either Christ's atonement is satisfactory and complete, or it isn't.

Either you are, at the moment of your death, utterly perfect, completely holy, and absolutely ready to enter the presence of a righteous God (who is, according to Scripture, a "consuming fire," and will not be deceived by any snow-covered dunghills merely covered by an imputed legal fiction, pace Martin Luther), or you'll need purgatory ... or you're going to hell.

Those are the only possible choices.

212 posted on 03/27/2007 8:13:04 PM PDT by Campion ("I am so tired of you, liberal church in America" -- Mother Angelica, 1993)
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