Posted on 03/26/2007 6:59:22 AM PDT by presidio9
The feeling here heading into a potentially historic week, when British unionists and Irish nationalists could agree to form a government, might be described as one of prerelief. Relief because there is a sense that things are finally going to go right this time, but only a preliminary one because, well, they've been down this road before.
Today we'll learn what it will be this time: devolution of a raft of governing powers from London to a local assembly elected March 7, or dissolution of the assembly and an undefined joint custody between Britain and the Republic of Ireland to the south. After years of waiting for the Provisional Irish Republican Army and its political wing, Sinn Féin, to lay down their arms and accept the rule of law, all now hinges on the hard-line Democratic Unionist Party's agreeing to work with the nationalists. Over the weekend DUP leader Ian Paisley, the Protestant minister dubbed "Dr. No" for his refusal even to speak with Sinn Féin, demanded a six-week extension. For all the bluster, though, there is still a decent chance that an arrangement will be made.
If anyone embodies Northern Ireland's incomplete transition to self rule, it's Gerry Adams. The Sinn Féin leader is widely accused of, and always denies, having ties to the highest levels of the IRA. Either way, and right or wrong, the fact is that he's become a legitimate actor on the political stage in the eyes of the British. That the onus is on Mr. Paisley and the DUP to go along with power-sharing, or risk absorbing the public's outrage for failing to do so, goes to show just how much the perception of Mr. Adams and Sinn Féin has changed. The IRA, remember, is blamed
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I notice you condemned the main point. Do you condemn the Provisional IRA terrorists?
Power sharing with the likes of these is like trying to make a compromise with the devil.
Sorry if you think I condemned your main point. I didn't condemn it at all. I know what you wrote is true. I am just educating you about the history of Cuchulain and the significance of him to the Irish people. He was around a long time before the British set foot on Ireland.
For the third time - as well as the rest - do you condemn the Provisional IRA terrorists?
I condemn all terrorists whether they be IRA, UFF, UDA, UVF, etc. I also condemn terrorist acts commited by RUC and British Security Forces. No one is innocent in this debacle. Like I said, evil begets evil.
The IRA is responsible for the single greatest number of civilian deaths, at 517. The closest loyalist paramilitary civilian death count is the UVF at 359. Even when civilian deaths are totaled by Republican Paramilitary versus Loyalist Paramilitary, the civilian death count for all the loyalist groups is only slightly higher, at 873 to 738 – and the reason is that there were at least 5 loyalist groups operating independently, whereas the IRA was responsible for the overwhelming majority of republican paramilitary civilian deaths. To claim as you seem to be doing that the IRA’s hands are not as bloody as the loyalist paramilitary groups is flat wrong.
Don't forget where the donations came from?
No, the IRA killed 517. All republican paramilitary groups combined killed 738. Since we are talking stats, it pays to be exact. My numbers come from the Sutton Index of Deaths on the CAIN website - it contains crosstabulations of all deaths related to the Troubles. Well worth a visit for anyone interested in the topic. I would post a link if I knew how off the top of my head:)
Yes, Bobbyjoe's numbers are the most accurate according to what I have researched but everyone is missing the whole point. Like I said before, Northern Ireland was a disaster in the making. What is the difference between an islamic autocrasy and a Protestant autocrasy - just the religion. We wouldn't be having this discussion if the Northern Ireland government hadn't shut out the Catholics from participating in government, etc. If you don't believe the whole concept of Northern Ireland being an evil creation you are living with your head in the sand. Maybe they didn't chop off the heads of Catholics but they were oppressed all the same. Like I said evil begets evil. Northern Ireland practiced institutionalized discrimination. Let's face it, Ian Paisley and his crowd hate Catholics and the Catholic religion yet they go one unchecked. Read some of his speeches.
LOL! I probably wouldn't have thought of that, but you're right!
Where do you draw the view that Northern Ireland is not free?
IIRC it was the IRA et al who have consitently refused to recognize that the majority of the inhabitants of Northern Ireland prefer to be affiliated with the UK vice Ireland.
Its also not clear that as a practical matter Ireland would want it. It would be a significant drag on the Celtic Tiger with no gain.
I too have been there, walked the land and seen it with my own eyes.
There is one point you keep missing - the people of the six counties VOTED to stay in the UK.
Exactly. The people of NI choose to remain within the UK. The big myth is that the rest of GB wants to keep NI.
In fact most would give it away with a cherry on top tomorrow, but the Republic of Ireland don't want it and how can you go against the majority of a province that wants to stay within the UK?
And just how do you justify THAT statement?
The Orange and the Green have been fighting since the formation of the Irish Republic, and BOTH sides have been guilty of atrocities.....
Your forgetting one little point...the Country doesn't belong to anyone but the Irish!
True, that is why it is good that both sides of the Irish divide live in peace.
They can vote for anything they want, including a united Ireland, Independence or the Status Quo. This is accepted by all of them, from SF to the DUP.
Let's not interfere now eh?
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