More PC bullshit from the pc bullshit crowd. When are we going to start fighting wars to win instead of fighting them with both hands tied behind our backs? The reason the locals want them to leave is because they were effective. They use this BS against us time and time again. When the hell are we going to learn?
PC warfare. Unbelievable. Disgraceful. An insult to all who serve.
Related thread, FYI: "Marines face U.S. probe in Afghanistan shootings"
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1805757/posts
To be honest, I don't know what to think.
What I am sure of is that something about this whole report doesn't ring true. I can't tell you what part, though, but something stinks.
They may be pulling out the Marines, but I'll bet they're not pulling out any of the lawyers!
You would have thought after Viet Nam, we would have learned about being PC in a war.
If we want our young men to fight it we are going to have to back them up when the circumstances are questionable.
We will also have to back them up when they are flat, plain, WRONG.
They don't need our backup when there is photographic evidence that they are right.
They need us to back them up just like our nation backed up our troops in WWII.
If we can't do that we should surrender right now.
Another political cruxification coming.
Thank heavens they didn't use this methoed of fighting WWII, or the US would be speaking German & Japanese...
Below comments received via email germane:
ALCON:
Admin note first. I've received far too many EMails on this subject today to be able to respond to everyone..."slow I-Net system" over here just will not allow it. So please permit me to use this already well-discussed thread to address many of you...both open as "To" adees as well as several key folks open Bcc. Additionally, I'm asking Marlene to share this with the FULL WAYMOR Inc List.
I have been following this issue the best I can since it was first reported in early March. Many seem to think that since I'm over here, I have the inside track on such issues. Not at all the case in that by virtue of being down here in the Southern AO, we are, in many respects, in "another world" from the events that go on up Kabul way...and for the most part...that's a good thing!
I have NO definitive info on this, and some of you, in fact, may have more straight skinny on it than I. That said, however, bear with me thru a few observations/comments/out loud thinking/etc.
As with other such issues, where POSSIBLE wrong-doing has been aligned with our Marines (and other service members), I continue to observe THREE Camps forming. Generally speaking, there's one that says to hell with whatever they did...they're in a war...leave them alone and let them fight and IF "innocents" get in the way...too bad. Another (much smaller) group shows a swing to the opposite side...wanting a full investigation and the bringing of any "guilty parties" to justice...whatever that might take and whatever that might mean. The third group (of which I'm one) is a blend of the first two (but certainly more aligned with the first group than the second)...realizing that:
1. While we too want to know what's behind this, we weren't there when the ambush went down, so we don't really know what happened...just as do the folks now looking into it NOT know what really happened and probably never will...WE understand the FOG OF WAR!
2. Since many of us are combat vets who have dealt with insurgent forces before, we know all-too-well that they fully orchestrated this ambush to cause collateral damage to personnel and property IF even the most proper of counter-ambush actions were taken against the attackers. They set up all along the route (in both directions) and fired at the vehicles from among "innocent civilians." Further, that they have made the most from the Information Operations aspect of the event...they being much better at IO than we...rallying post-event support against the Marine force (U.S. in general)...bringing pressure against Karzai...etc.
3. There are those in the Special Operations community who do NOT want the Marine Corps involved as a player, and will use this event and following accusations/actions as an "I told you so." I know this to be a fact because I've been involved with the overall evolution from the very first meetings (Maj Jim Capers, myself and other "old Force Recon Marines" were invited to these meetings chaired by Quantico types looking into USMC involvement in SOF integration)...etc. Most of us have had our reservations about the entry of the Corps into SOF spectrum from the beginning, so we've watched this effort very closely...not listening just to those "singing the school song" on the issue and listening very closely to what others in the SOF community have been saying about not wanting Marines involved...etc. There is ALREADY much talk going on about this w/in the "anti" groups.
4. There are already numerous stories and tons of speculation going on about this, so folks have a cafeteria style menu to pick and choose from with regard to what they will want to believe...position they want to take...etc.
OK...so...there MAY have been some improper actions taken by the Marines...easy to say that after the fact when one wasn't there and getting shot at! The Marine force MAY have (as some comments I've heard) come into country "with an ATTITUDE"...not an uncommon trait for Marines and especially "special operators"...most open here know what I mean.... There MAY have been some slow/imprecise reporting of the incident in that nearly all such initial reports are either inaccurate, incomplete or both...and on and on and on....
WHATEVER the case, and as it eventually pans out, the U.S. "powers to be" should have NEVER sent the Marine Company packing out of country...an absolutely WRONG move...sending the WRONG message to the bad guys...etc....! Altho Al West and I have noted some positive change over here, as of late (but we still have the Spring ahead of us with the Taliban coming out of the mountains), I for one (and believe Al is in sync with me on this) remain very concerned w/re to senior leadership (Col & GenOff) over here...the PC BS approach to warfighting...etc. We are hoping Gen Dan McNeil USA will be able to turn much of this half-hearted effort around!
BOTTOM LINE...we (the institutional "we"...not those of us who know the deal) simply continue to shoot ourselves in the foot! Again, this action, when coupled with the recent release of Talib prisoners in exchange of the Italian journalist, sends a totally WRONG message to the bad guys...fully seen by them as a great weakness on our part...and sadly, it would seem they're right...!
Thanks for bearing with me on this. Some may disagree, but....
Semper Fidelis from the Sands of Kandahar,
Wayne V. Morris
Col USMC (Ret)