Posted on 03/23/2007 4:30:15 AM PDT by MindBender26
Just saw in 7:00-7:30 segment of GMA.
Iranian navy siezed about a dozen UK sailors. Sailors were conducting routine shipping embargo inspection in northern end of Persian Gulf.
Sailors have been taken back to Iran
Can't find it anywhere else.
Yes I know they are not part of the EU. I was just stating who would help the Brits besides the US.
Pox, I certainly agree that the neo-con objective in the Middle-East was for Iraq to become a democractic champion whose success would induce change across the region. However, I don't think this is the objective of the Bush administration anymore. Iraq has been , as we know, a very difficult and bloody exercise. A reasonably stable, pro-western state is now surely the objective. The war in Iraq has made us look weak, not strong. This is because our failure to defeat (thus far) the insurgency in Iraq has made us look vulnerable: politically and militarily.
I agree with open mind closed-fist that the best effort we could make against Iran at present/in the case of future provocation would be in the form of airstrikes. We cannot afford to escalate much beyond this:
As to your assertion that the U.S. et al are ready now for a full-scale war with Iran. Do you believe that the current composition and force levels of Western troops in Iraq are enough for a ground campaign? I think it would take several weeks of reinforcement if we planned to take the battle into Iran. I noted earlier, and fully accept your point, that Iran would get a very bloody nose if it tried anything at the present. Yet any Iranian incursion would have political effects far beyond its limited military effort. It would accentuate the impression of chaos in Iraq and the region. The political fall-out in the U.S./U.K. etc would be massive. Certainly, U.S. military commanders don't seem to want their forces stretched further. See the link:
http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article17172.htm
Well, the newspapers seem to be pretty angry, but sadly most people won't even take notice.
But generally, I think most people are ticked off.
Sadly we don't really have anything like freerepublic.
Since the Iranians are ignoring the UN and the rest of the world, there is no reason to think the EU's demand that the sailors be released will be heeded. It's time to bomb and destroy Iran's oil pipelines and nuclear sites. This would destroy their economy and remove their nuclear threat. It is the kind of "message" they'll understand.
Thanks for replying...just saw that Iran has said the sailors have "confessed" to being in Iran territory..
Thanks for replying...just saw that Iran has said the sailors have "confessed" to being in Iran territory..
The sailors have likely made a false confession out of fear for their lives.
One cannot blame them for that.
How dare these iranians treat our heroes like this.
This a absolute outrage.
So....start a Free Republic there. I'm sure there are people here to assist you in doing that!
If anyone was interested, I'd most certainly be up for it.
Iran's smart. They know that the UK won't do anything physical to rescue them or retaliate. Blair is so politically weak, he can't do a thing.
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Britain is the "new France" and they will not be Britain again for a long time. They might as well go home and disband their military after this incident.
Unfortunately, Blair & Bush are politically weak. Anyone who imagines that either would react forcefully and violently about this kind of situation is living in fantasyland.
Unfortunately, Blair & Bush are politically weak. Anyone who imagines that either would react forcefully and violently about this kind of situation is living in fantasyland.
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They should do what is right. Explain it to the people. Take it to the streets. Take appropriate actions. Be a leader. Have some cajones. Make their case. Do whatever is necessary. If they don't they have no business leading their country and should resign immediately.
I just can't imagine either of them getting aggressive and violent over this situation, sorry.
They are just applying the same insane strategy Hezbollah did last year.
Start a war via taking hostages where the other side, Israel, provides such a massive asskicking, but via muslim logic you declare yourself the winners.
We are not dealing with sane rational people here.
I was at Camp Red Cloud, Korea on 18Aug76 when some of our men were attacked and murdered by the DPRK at the JSA. This was at the tail end of the Viet Nam war and certainly the US wasn't looking forward to another conflict. Here was our reaction.
---Operation Paul Bunyan was carried out on August 21 at 7 AM, just three days after the killings. A convoy of 23 American and South Korean vehicles (‘Task Force Vierra’, named for Lieutenant Colonel Victor S. Vierra, commander of the United States Army Support Group) drove into the JSA without any warning to the North Koreans, who only had one observation post manned at the early hour. In the vehicles were two eight-man engineer teams (from the 2nd Engineer Battalion, 2nd Infantry Division) equipped with chain saws to cut down the tree. The engineer teams were accompanied by two 30-man security platoons from the Joint Security Force armed with pistols and axe handles. The 2nd Platoon would secure the northern entrance to the JSA by the “Bridge of No Return”, while the 3rd Platoon would secure the southern edge of the area.
In addition, a 64 man ROK special forces company accompanied them, armed with clubs and trained in Tae Kwon Do, supposedly without firearms. However, once they parked their trucks near the Bridge of No Return, they started throwing out the sandbags that lined the truck bottoms, and handing out M-16 rifles and M-79 grenade launchers that had been concealed below. Several of the special forces men also had Claymore mines strapped to their chests with the firing mechanism in their hands, and were shouting at the North Koreans to cross the bridge.[6] [7]
A U.S. infantry company in 20 utility helicopters and 7 Cobra attack helicopters circled behind them. Behind these helicopters B-52 bombers, escorted by U.S. F-4 fighters and ROK F-5 fighters were visible flying across the sky at high altitude. At Osan Air Base, F-111 fighters had been armed and fueled, ready to take off at short notice. The Midway aircraft carrier task force had also been moved to be stationed just off-shore. In addition, near the edges of the DMZ, many more heavily armed U.S. and ROK infantry, artillery, and armor were waiting to back up the special operations team. The bases near the DMZ were prepared for demolition in the case of a military response.
Altogether, Task Force Vierra consisted of 813 men, almost all of the men of the United States Army Support Group, of which the Joint Security Force was a part, a ROK reconnaissance company, a ROK Special Forces company which had infiltrated the river area by the bridge the night before, and members of a reinforced composite rifle company from the 9th Infantry Regiment. In addition to this force, every UNC force in the rest of South Korea was on full battle alert with all weapons loaded, ready to fire if needed.---
Like the old saying, if the Arabs layed down their arms, there would be peace, and if the Jews layed down their arms, there would be no Jews...
With my dealings with the Palestinians here in Israel as an American, I can attest that saying is quite accurate.
Thank you for the history of that incident-it sounds fascinating and a credit to the US armed forces. I hadn't heard of this incident before and am very sorry that you lost men. I hope you didn't think I was underestimating the immense courage and determination of the U.S. armed forces. I know they have never backed down from a challenge.
I think that we're in a quandry with regards to Iran, however. Iran has undoubtedly been involved in insurgent activity in Iraq and more overt provocation such as personnel seizures. However, I don't think that the Coalition of the Willing is politically ready for a full-scale war with Iran. Futhermore, a general military push into Iran itself would probably require equal or greater troops numbers as that required for Iraq in 2003. It would take several weeks for U.S./Coalition forces to prepare for an extended campaign. I believe, in this regard, that limited airstrikes on Iran are most likely if push comes to shove quickly. These may (like they did in Kosovo) just bolster domestic support for Ahmadinejad. I think that the difficult position that we find ourselves in with regards to Iran is reflected in our Rules of Engagement, which are de-escalatory.
Hopefully, these British troops will be released soon and the incident is just another example of Iranian posturing. The British government is taking a firm line, however I don't know how many military options are available to us now that the personnel have apparently been transferred to Tehran. The British military has a good record on hostage rescue, but it may be impossible.
Talking of historical precedent, have you heard of Operation Barras in 2000? It was a British mission to rescue members of the Royal Irish Rangers taken hostage by several hundred members of the brutal West Side Boys Militia in Sierra Leonne. These men were being held in dense jungle. The British special forces and parachute regiment managed to achieve total suprise in attacking the rebel base. They rescued all of the hostages and decimated the militia whilst suffering, sadly, 1 KIA and several wounded. It is an interesting incident as it has achieved very little press coverage etc, depite arguably being a harder operation to pull off than the Iranian Embassy Siege in 1980. Heres a link if you're interested:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Barras
My mistake, you're exactly right.
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