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To: dcwusmc
"but my preferred backup in close quarters would be a double-barreled 12 ga."

Use whatever you want. But if you want the second amendment to protect your right to use it, then, according to the Miller court, it must have "some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia".

The argument is not, and has never been, about what type of weapon can be used in combat. The argument is what "arms" the second amendment protects. If you're going to reference Miller in your arguments, then you'll have to accept their criteria, whether you agree with it or not.

715 posted on 03/24/2007 6:25:27 AM PDT by robertpaulsen
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To: robertpaulsen

You STILL have not read the decision, have you? Otherwise you would have to stop this inane babbling. Oh, and since sawed-off shotguns HAVE BEEN used in combat, I guess that does, in fact, make them militia weapons.


718 posted on 03/24/2007 7:30:44 AM PDT by dcwusmc (We need to make government so small that it can be drowned in a bathtub.)
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To: robertpaulsen
some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia".

Nice selective quote. And it is from the Syllabus, not the actual decision, it has no force of law whatsoever. (That's the clerk's summary of the decision

What the clerk actually wrote was:

The Court can not take judicial notice that a shotgun having a barrel less than 18 inches long has today any reasonable relation to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia; and therefore can not say that the Second Amendment guarantees to the citizen the right to keep and bear such a weapon

Note : any reasonable relationship" is not the same as "must be issued to state militia units". But as I said, that language was not the court's and has no legal force.

What the court wrote was:

In the absence of any evidence tending to show that possession or use of a "shotgun having a barrel of less than eighteen inches in length" at this time has some reasonable relationship to the preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia, we cannot say that the Second Amendment guarantees the right to keep and bear such an instrument. Certainly it is not within judicial notice that this weapon is any part of the ordinary military equipment or that its use could contribute to the common defense. Aymette v. State, 2 Humphreys (Tenn.) 154, 158.

BTW, that cite is to a *state* court case. Unlike the second amendment, that state Constitution had an RKBA provision that included the words "for the common defense" and still does. That the citizens of this State have a right to keep and to bear arms for their common defense". Article 1, Section 26.

728 posted on 03/24/2007 8:46:27 PM PDT by El Gato ("The Second Amendment is the RESET button of the United States Constitution." -- Doug McKay)
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To: robertpaulsen
The argument is not, and has never been, about what type of weapon can be used in combat.

Which is absurd, as we would not get any advancement in arms then. Only by developing new weapons and trying them out, typically well outside any explicit military setting, do we discover what works well enough to become formally adopted. Perfect example is the .50BMG rifle: initially developed as a coarse machinegun, a precision long-range rifle was developed around the ammo for sporting purposes, then the result was adopted by military snipers.

Gotta wonder why you're so he11-bent on keeping anything out of civilian hands.

732 posted on 03/27/2007 5:42:46 PM PDT by ctdonath2 (The color blue tastes like the square root of 0?)
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