Posted on 03/17/2007 7:32:42 AM PDT by amchugh
bump
Vicki's words sound more like a prophecy to me.
Only an uninformed jerk can condone the massacre at Ruby Ridge by Federal agents.
All the Weavers wanted was to be left alone to raise their children on their mountain. An impossibility in today's America.
The feds earned their ugly nicknames that day:
BATF: Babies And Toddlers First
FBI: F**ed up Beyond all Imagination
I do -- without a doubt. Now, he's not the only one I blame. But what he did was cold-blooded murder. He knew what he was doing. "Just following orders" wasn't sufficient at Nuremberg and it shouldn't be sufficient for the events at Ruby Ridge.
And your post #49 proves even moreso that you don't know the facts. Go study up on the case and come back with a cogent argument that agrees with the facts.
"Perhaps the FBI had forgotten that Randy Weaver and been carrying only a twelve-gauge shotgun and a holstered handgun on the day the shooting at the "Y" took place. The bullet that the FBI now produced had been fired from a .223. And how was the bullet found? The FBI claims it found it, a spent bullet, lying daintily on top of some leaves, not buried, not marred or scratched or bent or bruised or dented or otherwise blemished, except of course, for the rifling that happened to match the .223 rifle that the FBI had seized. But it was not Randy's rifle. It was a rifle belonging to Sara, and Sara had never left the house. Moreover, for the bullet to travel from the house to the "Y", it would have had to magically travel through more than half a mile of dense timber without touching, not once, a tree or a twig, and it would have had to land perfectly on top of the leaves, land in such a way as to appear it had been carefully laid there, which is not the known dynamic of bullets as they spend themselves.
Think of it! Another magic bullet, like in the Oswald case? We remembered that bullet, of course, the one the FBI seemingly produced out of nowhere during the assassination investigation. It had supposedly passed through flesh and bone and bone and flesh of both President Kennedy and Governor Connally, and having done so, it was conveniently found right there in the gurney, pristine and pretty and as utterly unmarked as the day it had been manufactured.
In Randy's trial, we challenged not only the bullet itself, but the means by which it had gotten to the "Y". Under my cross-examination, the FBI agent who recovered the bullet admitted that he had manufactured evidence that was to later illustrate its discovery. The agent claimed he found the bullet, picked it up and put it in his pocket. Then he claimed he later thought that he should take a photo of it to record how and where the bullet lay when he supposedly found it. So the agent took the bullet back to the place where he thought he found it, took it out of his pocket again, placed it on the ground and took a picture of it. One would wonder if he could even remember in the what direction the bullet had been pointing. The photo, of course, was posed. But it had not been offered as a posed picture. Government officers, our servants, ought not to attempt to put citizens in prison for life based on posed pictures of magic bullets.
Go to the link and read the first few paragraphs to get an idea of the mentality you are defending.
I listened through the hearings and noboby ever asked how a trained sniper looking through a telescopic sight could not see Vicki Weaver. but it never happened. Did anyone even ask to see the scope or the weapon? I dont remember it.
You forget that Vickie Weaver was standing in her kitchen holding her infant when Horiuchi -- standing outside the house -- shot her through the window. If that's not government invasion I don't know what is. She didn't deserve to die.
Grow up or get off a discussion board.
Only an uninformed jerk can condone the massacre at Ruby Ridge by Federal agents.
Which I don't and haven't.
Horiuchi did see Vicki. He knew it was her. He took aim at her with the intent to kill her. This wasn't a case of mistaken identity.
You shouldn't confuse condemnation with what the government did in this case with an endorsement of the Weaver's beliefs. That's the same mistake Gerry's friend made in that letter posted earlier. You really ought to take the time to read Gerry's reply.
Let's assume for the sake of argument everything you think about the Weavers is true. Does that give the government the right to send paramilitary forces to execute them? That's what this is about for most people.
When you start to dig into the case you then realize he wasn't a tax evader, gun runner, bank robber, white supremacist, or even a violent revolutionary. Was he paranoid about the government? You bet, and in the end his paranoia proved correct.
The facts are clear. He wasn't convicted and the government paid millions to his children for murdering their mother. The facts are clear and they are not in dispute.
Exactly!
You ignore the (criminal) misconduct and entrapment efforts of the Feds in this case. You speak without knowledge.
...because he failed to show up for court.The notices sent him had the wrong dates on them. The Feds committed an enormous injustice.
Weaver was a Special Forces veteran of Viet Nam. I've read that the FBI attempted to recruit him as an informant in the mid-1980s.
Yes, I've read that Mrs. Weaver had "Christian Identity" beliefs. But IMO that did not motivate the entrapment of Randy Weaver. Instead some believe that the plan was to make an offer that he couldn't refuse; to wit, entrap him and then offer to drop all charges if . . . Well, he refused. BTW, I believe that it's an established fact that he was entrapped by a government informant. Maybe the informant was just trying to fill a "quota."
During the Senate hearings I swear that the majority of the right winger "supremacists" and evil doers who testified were government informants or uncover agents. I swear.
"One bad apple really does spoil the whole bunch", when we are talking about prosecution's evidence. {And there's a whole lot more than one bad apple in this story, my fellow FReeper.}
Yes, you'll see that when you get further down the thread...
Read then post. Check. Thanks.
prayers for the Weaver family
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