Posted on 03/17/2007 7:32:42 AM PDT by amchugh
This is one part of a five part series done for BBC Channel 4. It focusses on Ruby Ridge and the Weaver family, with some digression into seperatists, conspiracy theorists, etc...
You don't have a clue what you are talking about. He wasn't "holed up." That was his home. He and his family were ambushed by federal agents. Have you ever read or studied any of this? Have you read Gerry Spence's book?
So where our founding Fathers and those that wrote our Constitution .
Perhaps the biggest irony of the whole Ruby Ridge tragedy was the Weavers' conspiracy theories actually became fact.
We can condescend to such people with our "higher intellect," but when what they fear becomes a reality, what do you say to them then? Even if we don't believe what they believe, can we not at least understand why some are led to these beliefs? Especially after Ruby Ridge and Waco?
Perhaps the biggest irony of the whole Ruby Ridge tragedy was the Weavers' conspiracy theories actually became fact.
We can condescend to such people with our "higher intellect," but when what they fear becomes a reality, what do you say to them then? Even if we don't believe what they believe, can we not at least understand why some are led to these beliefs? Especially after Ruby Ridge and Waco?
Randy weaver broke no law. He merely refused to help the goverment trap other people and was punished for it. His boy was shot without warning after he started running when he saw his dog killed by an agent. How is this Randy's fault? A jury thought differently then you and awarded Randy 3 million dollars, the judge who over saw Randy's trial severely reprimanded the prosecuters for ever bringing him to trial. To say this was Randy's fault is the epitomy of stupidity.
sorry for the double
Not likely in an area swarming with people looking for an 'in' to infiltrate separatist/supremacist organizations.
But maybe they just wanted him on a gun charge, if so why him?
It has been argued he was some sort of 'evil anti-government person', a religious zealot (ever notice how that is reserved for Christians, not Muslims), a crackpot, etc., etc., which is a standard demonization tactic, (one which was later practised more intensely at Waco with Koresh, along with other allegations).
They (ATF/FBI) were not making progress infiltrating these sort of organizations: in small towns and rural areas people can be slow to warm to people who are obviously from elsewhere.
The saying goes that the one in the room yelling most loudly to "blow it up" or "burn it down" is usually the informant.
It has become a (standard, unfortunately) tactic for LEOs to find someone to lean on, (a welfare mom with a small amount of pot is a sure winner in some areas), lean on them (threaten to take their kids away), and get them to inform on others. Sooner or later someone who is someone gets snared, and either turns on someone bigger or takes the rap.
The sad part is that this was being used against people who may believe differently (as is their right), instead of very real threats.
How ironic that this happened during the administration of the first president to proclaim that "The New World Order" had arrived, none other than GHW Bush.
He also went on to completely cut off access to ownership of new class III firearms to any but LEOs and Military, not only limiting the supply of class III firearms, but causing their prices to rise dramatically as well.
Is there some 'grand conspiracy' against our nation by people intent on world government?
I do not claim to know. I do know that theories arise out of an attempt to explain observed pheomena, and the theory (and the phenomena) have been out there for a while.
In the meantime, our borders remain unsecured, plans have been laid for mega trade corridors, and our nation is less materially independant and industrially capable than any time in the past 60 years. YMMV.
Sorry, but Ruby Ridge took place under the Clinton reign of power.
Double on what brazzaville said.
Ruby Ridge took place late in the summer of 92, before Clinton was elected.
Sure.
Mis- and malfeasance seem to be Mr. Larry Potts trade marks. His good friend FBI Director Freeh appointed him second in command ("He is the very best the FBI has.") but had to remove him after just a few months ("unable to effectively perform his duties") owing to outrage based upon some very questionable deeds of his at Ruby Ridge and Waco -- and the fact that he and others were under investigation at that time!
Time reported "FBI official, E. Michael Kahoe, admitted destroying documents collected during an internal investigation of the Ruby Ridge episode . . . Did Kahoe act on the orders of a superior, possibly Potts?"
The following is from A Review of Allegations of a Double Standard of Discipline at the FBI, November 15, 2002, Office of the Inspector General. CHAPTER FIVE, RUBY RIDGE
June 30, 1999 DOJ OPR issues final report; concludes Potts, Coulson, Walsh, Harp, and Mathews committed misconduct; report sent to AAG Colgate for disciplinary decisions; Colgate assigns JMD (Justice Management Division) Assistant Director Jarcho to review matter
December 1999 Jarcho completes review; concludes Freeh, Potts, Coulson, Harp, and Mathews should be disciplined.
[Years and years after Ruby Ridge some truth emerged but only because of the persistent efforts of a few citizens.]
The OPR investigation started in 1997. "DOJ OPR investigated . . . to what extent did misconduct by FBI personnel contribute to the failure of the internal inquiries to uncover the full story of FBI actions in connection with Ruby Ridge."
Also looked at was the "who authorized the shoot-on-sight" rule. The OPR "concluded that Potts and Coulson later committed misconduct by making false statements about their approval of the rules of engagement."
In June, 1999 Justice Management Division (JMD) Assistant Director Vivian Jarcho was assigned to completely review DOJ OPR's and FBI OPR's analyses. Completed in December 1999.
"Jarcho's report concluded that Potts and Coulson were directly involved in formulating and approving the rules of engagement and impeding official investigations by making false and misleading statements to investigators. It also concluded that they blamed more junior FBI members for their actions and let them be harshly judged and disciplined in their place. It stated that if Potts and Coulson were still employed by the FBI, they could be subject to disciplinary action."
The report disputed "DOJ OPR's finding that there was no evidence of overt favoritism during the inquiry or evidence that he [lead investigator Walsh] was selected in order to protect Potts."
[End excerpts]
Both Potts and Coulson left the FBI unscathed and with fat retirement checks flowing in monthly.
If memory serves, Potts went to work for an outfit that the Clintons' hired to destroy (IMO) opponents. To wit, Investigative Group International Inc., a high-powered research firm led by Terry Lenzner that has been employed by lawyers for President Clinton. Larry Potts, former deputy director at the Federal Bureau of Investigation, is IGI’s chief operating officer. See
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a394a533e3771.htm
I agree and I think the vast majority of people agree.
Yes and I thought Weaver did an excellent job. Someone else made a reference to his "low IQ" but I doubt that.
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