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To: Coyoteman

" I was particularly struck by the findings, one part of which was summarized in the abstract as follows:

"As a consequence, the claim that historical science is methodologically inferior to experimental science cannot be sustained."

The connection to creation/ID is that if historical science methodology is not inferior to experimental science, then the general "falsifiable" argument against ID does not apply.


291 posted on 03/15/2007 6:45:51 PM PDT by dan1123
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To: dan1123
The connection to creation/ID is that if historical science methodology is not inferior to experimental science, then the general "falsifiable" argument against ID does not apply.

OK, I see where you are coming from. You are trying to "wedge" creation/ID into a scientific framework. The problem is that you are ignoring the scientific method in doing so.

This started with creation "science." There was no science there, just an attempt to couch a religious belief in scientific terms.

When creation "science" was banned from the schools by the U.S. Supreme Court in the late 1980s, creationists needed to come up with another vehicle, and hence ID was hatched.

The problem is that ID really is an offshoot of creationism. The subterfuge is spelled out clearly in the Wedge Strategy. Further evidence: the book Of Pandas and People changed the term "creation/creationism" to "intelligent design" in subsequent iterations--trying to keep up with the changing scheme to convert creation "science" into the new study, "intelligent design." The problem is, they were sloppy, and left a clear paper trail.

By pretending that the "intelligent designer" is not the Christian deity, it was hoped that the judiciary would be fooled. The Dover decision showed that to be incorrect.

It seems to me that the subterfuge of trying to hide creation "science" under the new rubric of "intelligent design," in order to sneak it into the classrooms after the Supreme Court decision is nothing if not dishonest.

But here's another test. In the past I have posted a number of creation stories from around the world, and the vast majority of IDers take offense at the accuracy or truth of these stories--they generally say something like, "That's not the right creation story!" Or, they say, "There is no good documentation for that story; my creation story has better documentation!"

They believe that their creation story is better documented or in some way superior to the several thousand other such stories that have been found around the world. So its not just creation in general, or ID in specific that we are seeing here; it is the biblical version of creation, as seen in Genesis, that is the key belief. ID is just a ruse.

In actuality, most IDers don't really believe in some unnamed, unknown, designer. They believe the "designer" was the Christian deity precisely as specified in the bible. I think many so-called IDers are trying to dishonestly portray their actual beliefs as some form of science in an attempt to introduce the biblical version of creation into the public schools, and into science classes.

Here is one of the "other" creation stories. Do you think it has any validity? Or is it not "as well documented" as some other creation story?


Crow Creation Story

In the beginning, Old Man Coyote stood alone with water surrounding him. Two ducks swam by, and Coyote asked if they had seen anyone else. The ducks said no but thought that something might exist under the water.

Coyote asked if they would travel underwater for him and report on what they saw. The ducks did as they were asked, finding nothing. He asked again, and the ducks returned with a root. On the third try, they found mud and Coyote was happy. He told the ducks that they could build with it, and he began to shape and mold the mud into an island. He blew on it, and it expanded. He blew again, and it grew into the earth. The ducks said they did not like the earth's emptiness, so Coyote created grass and trees out of the roots that came from the water.

Coyote and the ducks loved the earth, but it was flat. They wanted rivers, valleys, mountains, and lakes. So it was done. Soon Coyote and the ducks made a perfect earth, but they grew lonely, with only the three of them to sit and enjoy the land. So Coyote molded dirt to form men and then more mud to create many types of male ducks. Soon, they realized that without women, the males could not have children. So with more dirt he made women and female ducks to populate the earth.

One day Old Man Coyote traveled upon the land and was surprised to find another Coyote. When asked where he came from, the younger brother, named Shirape, said he was unsure of his origin and only knew he existed. As the two traveled along, Shirape wanted Old Man Coyote to make other animals, for only ducks, humans, and the two Coyotes had been created. The elder Coyote agreed, and as he spoke the new animals' names, they were created. He said "Elk" and an elk appeared. He said "Bear" and a bear appeared. This is how it was until all animals were created.


292 posted on 03/15/2007 7:33:32 PM PDT by Coyoteman (Religious belief does not constitute scientific evidence, nor does it convey scientific knowledge.)
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