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'That's Not Nice' - "Our political discourse needs more self-discipline" (re: Coulter & Maher)
Opinion Journal ^ | Friday March 9th, 2007 | Peggy Noonan

Posted on 03/09/2007 3:18:12 AM PST by ajolympian2004

Here is what has been said the past week or so that sparked argument: Bill Maher, on HBO, said a lot of lives would be saved if Vice President Cheney had died, and Ann Coulter, at a conservative political meeting, suggested John Edwards is a "faggot."

She was trying to be funny and get a laugh. He was trying to startle and get applause.

What followed was the predictable kabuki in which politically active groups and individuals feigned dismay as opposed to what many of them really felt, which was grim delight. Conservatives said they were chilled by Mr. Maher's comments, but I don't think they were. They were delighted he revealed what they believe is at the heart of modern liberalism, which is hate.

Liberals amused themselves making believe they were chilled by Ms. Coulter's remarks, but they were not. They were delighted she has revealed what they believe is at the heart of modern conservatism, which is hate.

The truth is many liberals were dismayed by Mr. Maher because he made them look bad, and many conservatives were mad at Ms. Coulter for the same reason.

I realized as I watched it all play out that there's a kind of simple way to know whether something you just heard is something that should not have been said. It is: Did it make you wince? When the Winceometer is triggered, it's an excellent indication that what you just heard is unfortunate and ought not to be repeated.

In both cases, Mr. Maher and Ms. Coulter, when I heard them, I winced. Did you? I thought so. In modern life we wince a lot. It's not the worst thing, but it's better when something makes you smile.

(Excerpt) Read more at opinionjournal.com ...


TOPICS: Culture/Society; Editorial; News/Current Events; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: anncoulter; billmaher; coulter; cpac; cpac2007; dickcheney; hbo; johnedwards; maher; noonan; peggynoonan; realtime; rhymeswithmaggot
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To: ajolympian2004

Your post #8 speaks truth. Thanks for putting it so well.


21 posted on 03/09/2007 4:09:48 AM PST by OldFriend (KNOWLEDGE FOREVER GOVERNS IGNORANCE)
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To: ajolympian2004
Deary Peggy Noonanny,

What language butchery you engage in! If you properly parse Ann's statement you will note that Ann did not *suggest* that John Edwards was a faggot. She, in fact, said it was socially inappropriate to use that word to describe him.

Ann was guilty of only one thing. Unlike the Bill Maher, Ann did not use the passive-aggressive verb tense and phrase formations.

Nor did you mention Barney Frank's comments. Now Barney, of course, is a well-known faggot and fag, so nothing bad may be sad of him, if one may use, that many commas, in one sentence, describing a homosexual of notoriety and power. Still, his celebration of the wished-for death of Mr. Cheney was even more over-toppish than the master of passive-aggression Bill Maher's.

Most Regardinglyesquetionly,
Freeper bvw
22 posted on 03/09/2007 4:11:07 AM PST by bvw
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To: rpellegrini

Just think of the opportunities Reagan would have lost had he behaved as destructively as she. There's no question that it's important to uphold principles. It doesn't mean that every effort she takes is productive. This is an instance in which her act was dysfunctional.

People make mistakes. The only ones who don't are those who do no work. But a mature person can say, okay maybe that was inappropriate as it drove down the good speeches that the candidates made.

It doesn't have to be an all or nothing situation. She's competent, she can process opportunities for self improvement.


23 posted on 03/09/2007 4:14:59 AM PST by saveliberty (Liberalism (called Middle of the Road by MSM) = You are free to do as you are told.)
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To: BlackElk

"not now or ever because genuine conservatives are not turbo-mannered wimps."

So real conservatives are name-calling high-school children? If you want to take it to one extreme, I can take it to the other.

Personally, I'm sick of the self-anointed claiming their view of what a conservative is or does is the only correct one. I hardly think refraining from inferring that a presidential candidate is a "faggot" would classify someone as a "turbo-mannered wimp"

Class and dignity is leaving the GOP with numerous FReepers holding the reigns and digging the spurs.


24 posted on 03/09/2007 4:15:51 AM PST by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: BlackElk

if the gop had the character, will and courage of reagan, than maybe one could criticize coulter for being over the top

in the absence of warrior conservative politicians, coulter fought back using the same tactics of the enemy left

good for her


25 posted on 03/09/2007 4:16:20 AM PST by Enduring Freedom (what does al qaeda and bush have in common? caves)
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To: Don W
I'm still trying to figure out where she called Edwards a fag. What I heard was "I was going to have a few comments on the other Democratic presidential candidate, John Edwards, but it turns out you have to go into rehab if you use the word 'faggot'."

So that doesn't answer your own question?

Let's not be ridiculous here. And let's not pretend Ann was calling him a wimp, either. It's the libs who feign innocence when doing their passive/aggressive thing ("I'm NOT against Bush, just his policies!"), while we are supposed to be the up-front ones who call a spade a spade.

26 posted on 03/09/2007 4:16:33 AM PST by Darkwolf377 (Anti-socialist Bostonian, Anti-Illegal Immigration Bush supporter, Pro-Life Atheist)
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To: L98Fiero

dignity, like those shepherded into the gas chambers?

not a chance

we fight, and keep fighting, and make the enemy left howl


27 posted on 03/09/2007 4:18:03 AM PST by Enduring Freedom (what does al qaeda and bush have in common? caves)
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To: BlackElk

Oh more than a dozen

http://www.captainsquartersblog.com/mt/archives/009328.php


28 posted on 03/09/2007 4:20:00 AM PST by saveliberty (Liberalism (called Middle of the Road by MSM) = You are free to do as you are told.)
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To: rpellegrini

She is someone I think has good points generally, however, she takes this:

"But censorship doesn't make people improve themselves; it makes people want to rebel. It tells them to toe the line or pay a price. People who are urged in the right direction and taught in the right direction will usually try to discipline and improve themselves from within. But they do not enjoy censorship from without. They fight back. They are rude in order to show they are unbroken."

And goes on to say that Ann was still wrong. I think that is incorrect, and certainly, the wrong point to make.

The right point to make was that in supporting Ann's critics, self-styled conservatives are supporting the PC atmosphere. They are supporting the suppression of conservative speech. They are ignoring the double standard and helping the left impose a separate one for conservatives. They are publicly excoriating someone who was pointing that double standard out!

I think Noonan fails to make that point. She may not even agree with it. And I think Ann's comments certainly proved Ann was right. Even formerly 'movement' conservatives are playing the PC card and all for sending her to reeducation camp.


29 posted on 03/09/2007 4:20:54 AM PST by LibertarianInExile ("Kid, thanks to your gay little song, there's not gonna BE a San Francisco." - SP, 'Smug Alert!')
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To: L98Fiero

I agree. Thank you for your post.

Cheers,

sl


30 posted on 03/09/2007 4:20:57 AM PST by saveliberty (Liberalism (called Middle of the Road by MSM) = You are free to do as you are told.)
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To: bvw

"Unlike the Bill Maher, Ann did not use the passive-aggressive verb tense and phrase formations."

Unlike Bill Maher, who has a show on a subscription network and preaches to moonbats in TV-land, Ann was the speaker at a mainstream Conservative political convention.

Comparing a conservative journalist to a TV personality who has already been fired from one network for his comments is a stretch.


31 posted on 03/09/2007 4:21:59 AM PST by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: L98Fiero
I think people are getting "honesty" confused with sounding like one has Tourette's Syndrome. One can be honest, and much more effective, by being polite and using an extended vocabulary; it looks particularly stark when your opponent has decided to succumb to an impulse control problem.

Regards, Ivan

32 posted on 03/09/2007 4:23:46 AM PST by MadIvan (I aim to misbehave.)
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To: Darkwolf377
What I don't understand is why she even went in that direction. She could have done a good 10 minutes on that ridiculous mansion he built and the "two America" theme he is always yammering about.

It's like someone being given the opportunity to criticize HIllary and all they talk about is her pantsuits. It was a superficial, gratuitous name-calling that did nothing but make Edwards a victim and make CPAC look bad.

I may be older than dirt, but good manners are timeless and always in good taste.

33 posted on 03/09/2007 4:24:23 AM PST by Miss Marple (Prayers for Jemian's son,: Lord, please keep him safe and bring him home .)
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To: MadIvan

Excellent point, MadIvan!


34 posted on 03/09/2007 4:25:01 AM PST by saveliberty (Liberalism (called Middle of the Road by MSM) = You are free to do as you are told.)
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To: Darkwolf377

She definitely did not call him a faggot there, she inferred that if she talked about him she would.

A very minute difference yes, but the point she was making was about the PC-ness and hyper-metrosexuality of the Edwards camp. The thought police have infiltrated further than I imagined if even you can't tell the difference between an inference and a statement.

I thought you were smarter than that.


35 posted on 03/09/2007 4:25:19 AM PST by Don W ("Well Done" is far better to hear than "Well Said". (Samuel Clemens))
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To: Enduring Freedom

"dignity, like those shepherded into the gas chambers?"

Not even Dorothy would touch that straw-man.

"we fight, and keep fighting, and make the enemy left howl"

LOL! Delusions of grandeur.


36 posted on 03/09/2007 4:25:47 AM PST by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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To: ajolympian2004

Self discipline is good. Censorship is not.


37 posted on 03/09/2007 4:26:30 AM PST by ekwd (Murphy's Law Has Not Been Repealed)
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To: Enduring Freedom

Your comments remind me of the confrontation between Darth Vader and Obi-Wan Kenobi in the first Star Wars movie. I think Obi-Wan said something like "you can't win Darth, if you strike me down I shall become more powerful than you can possible imagine."

When conservatives use the tactics of leftists, liberals and democrats they are joining the realm of the darkside. Liberals, leftists and democrats constantly destroy themselves with their arguments by their own words and nasty tactics in any debate on the issues.

The question is do conservatives need to use those same tactics of the darkside?


38 posted on 03/09/2007 4:26:59 AM PST by ajolympian2004
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To: L98Fiero
Oh, yes, that's so very important! Both points, highly, hugely, important.

We all know how ultra important it is to be perfectly PC at our mainstream Conservative political conventions. Yes, yes, that's the most maximum important thing.

And it is VERY important for YOU to be SO MAD at Ann Coulter! Very very!

39 posted on 03/09/2007 4:27:38 AM PST by bvw
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To: MadIvan

"One can be honest, and much more effective, by being polite and using an extended vocabulary;"

Indeed Ivan. You catch more flies with honey than vinegar.


40 posted on 03/09/2007 4:28:01 AM PST by L98Fiero (A fool who'll waste his life, God rest his guts.)
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