'That's Not Nice' - "Our political discourse needs more self-discipline" (re: Coulter & Maher)

Opinion Journal ^ | Friday March 9th, 2007 | Peggy Noonan

[Tribune7]

Bill Maher, on HBO, said a lot of lives would be saved if Vice President Cheney had died, and Ann Coulter, at a conservative political meeting, suggested John Edwards is a "faggot."

I like Peggy but this is something else that ticks me off. We have a flopped joke in which a trial lawyer is called a childish name (albeit with not any real difference in meaning than Rush calling him the "Breck Girl" and Laura using that Silky Pony song as his them.).

Then we have Maher wishing terrorists succeeded in killing another human being, not to mention a leader of our nation.

And Peggy is implying there is some sort of equivilancy.

And Peggy, I don't think Maher was joking.

[subterfuge]

"Girlie-man" or Breck girl" would have been perfect in place of the word Ann used.

No, no, no. This would not have worked at all. Don't you people get the 'you have to go into rehab' if you use the "f-word" reference? Her words were as much a comment on the PC Word-Police as it was on Edwards' feminine side.

[WilliamofCarmichael]

RE: "I have to admit calling Edwards a fag was childish."

Ms Coulter has attempted to get people to look at the context of her remarks. The comment first of all was aimed at Mr. Edwards' effeminate characteristics; others do the same; to wit, Rush's Breck Girl, Ms Ingrahm's Silky Pony.

The word "faggot" was meant to shock, nevertheless. The shock was a transition to the real problem of pressuring (forcing?) people into re-hab for the sin of free speech.

Her use of faggot was legitimate. What if she had described Mr. Edwards as a niggard? Valid also, I bet he has never contributed a penny to the poor. The reaction would have been the same. People have lost their jobs over that word.

Free speech is a thing of the past? It can be done but only in "safe" locations? Was he actually yelling, Fire! Really?

Making Ms Coulter the "issue" and deliberately ignoring a serious problem is a trick I've seen the left do to other people / issues for more than 50 years. All during those decades other conservatives have helped the left achieve their skullduggery.

[Enduring Freedom]

above all, have fun and let them howl!

the game of politics should never be taken too seriously, but the results sometimes matter

[BlackElk]

1. Libertarianism is NOT conservatism. Libertoonians are the ones who get 1% running as Libertarians. Conservatives are the ones who get 40-60% in contested races. See Ronaldus Maximus. The libertoonians (except for the noble Doris Gordon) dream that someday they can convince the GOP of the wonders of babykilling and of, ummmm, various perversions and just concentrate on money issues. Extreme libertoonians are also as anti-war and anti-military as any member of International A.N.S.W.E.R.

2. Your link, among other things, gives us the opinions of responders who feel quite free to despise religion generally and to target Ann for religion. The horror! The horror!

3. I may well be less net savvy than most here. I have never heard of the blogs of most of the signatories to that whinyletter against Ann. Ed Morrissey???? Who he? Repeat while inserting each other signatory's name. Fortunately, Ann will be continuing the work of the conservative movement with the bark on. Fortunately, ten years from now, ten minutes from now, ten weeks from now, ten days from now, the wimps who signed this whiny attempt for attention will be no better known than they are today.

4. OK. A few dozen idjits but none that will be missed.

5. Maher thinks it is a shame that the Taliban did not kill our sitting Vice President. These tools/faux "conservative" bloggers choose to launch on Ann for using the word faggot in relation to the Breck Girl, whose foreign, military, social issue, socialism views are quite, well, you know, but I don't want to go to PC/hanky up the sleeve re-education camp either.

6. So, do you think that Ann should go to "re-education camp"? Which one?

7. Now I know why I don't bother with "conservative" blogs other than FR (assuming that FR is a blog).

[saveliberty]

Nope you missed the point.

[BlackElk]

Well then, he must be in less trouble than if he had attacked her for being a non-wimp.

[dfwgator]

Feh! Politics is nasty, always has been, always will be.

[ajolympian2004]

"Well... there you go again."

[abigailsmybaby]

LOL! Whatever you say boss.

[BlackElk]

SL: No one is missing the point of Ann's critics. Hard though it may seem to those at your cocktail parties, meny vehemently disagree with your point.

Ann is our ally as the whineys are not.

[BlackElk]

#131 meny=many

[thulldud]

a linguistically challenged class of political barometers who flash red and hot at the use of any word that may offend their prissy sensitivities.

I must take exception here. These "barometers" don't actually have "prissy sensitivities", and you know that because the language that they excuse from their own is much worse than that which they condemn from us.

What is actually happening: these prissies are working to prove their own "goodness" by running down others. The more respectable or prominent the target, the more "cred" you get for taking it down.

It reminds me of the cannibals I once read about who eat their dead enemy's brain because they think that they can get his power that way. Given the proper conditions, I don't doubt that liberals would do the same. The only things they lack now are the spears, the face masks, and the cookbook.

[L98Fiero]

"1. Libertarianism is NOT conservatism."

According to Ronald Reagan, you are wrong.

* If you analyze it I believe the very heart and soul of conservatism is libertarianism. I think conservatism is really a misnomer just as liberalism is a misnomer for the liberals -- if we were back in the days of the Revolution, so-called conservatives today would be the Liberals and the liberals would be the Tories. The basis of conservatism is a desire for less government interference or less centralized authority or more individual freedom and this is a pretty general description also of what libertarianism is. Now, I can’t say that I will agree with all the things that the present group who call themselves Libertarians in the sense of a party say, because I think that like in any political movement there are shades, and there are libertarians who are almost over at the point of wanting no government at all or anarchy.
o Interview published in Reason (1975-07-01)

[Enduring Freedom]

hillary rodham clinton's recent comment in iowa -- "when you're attacked, you have to deck your opponent"

try fighting that with civility and good manners

[svcw]

Ann did nothing wrong. It is inferred by the listener that she called Edwards a faggot. She did not.
What I am sick of is people apologizing. It is time for people to say what they mean and stick with it, no matter how people may or may not be offended. The offense is their problem.
It is sickening this "we all have to make nice". Let us say what we mean and stand by it, people need to get their skin thickened or get out of the public arena.

[L98Fiero]

"Ann graduated Cornell University and University of Michigan Law School (where she was law review editor) and, likely, some high school before that."

Good for her. I knew she was smart.

"Didn't you graduate high school? Are you jealous of her?"

Yes and no.

"The "turbomannered wimps are the faux conservatives who are too busy attacking our own to attack the enemies of our civilization, our country and our movement and attack, not on issues but on their pecksniff view of proper manners.

The only person attacking anyone is Ann, and it was a personal attack. Once again, if publicly calling someone who isn't even a homosexual a "faggot" is your idea of sincere political discourse, there is no help for you.

"Does Edwards have a faggot foreign policy? Does he have a faggot military policy? Does he have a faggot criminal enforcement policy? Does Edwards not seek the nomination of the faggot party???? Etc. If so, what's your problem? If not, explain his manliness to conservatives."

None of that makes a lick of sense.

"Conservatism and libertarianism have diverged since Barry Goldwater resisted Ronald Reagan every inch of the way. Is it "self-annointed" to refuse to ally with those who want to comfort the sexually perverted and those who would see innocent babies killed? Goldwater did both as he freely admitted."

You have some learning to do about Reagan.

"Is it "classy" or "dignified" to kill babies or to abuse the nether end of the digestive tract of oneself or another? It may offend those in either category or both to have the truth tail pinned to their particular donkey."

Blah, blah blah, strawman etc.

Those who are dressed up in their "offended outrage" costumes are really offended by the public use of the term "faggot" and not that it was inferentially used as to Edwards who is politically indistinguishable from the genuine article.

Who claimed to be offended? You would do well to stop with the accusatory BS.

"Yo are never going to be part of a conservative movement that limits itself to scholarly discussions of Adam Smith much less of Ayn Rand, complete with exaggerated and absolutely undue respect for the practitioners of the despicable."

We don't limit our manner of discussion out of respect for "the practitioners of the despicable", we limit it out of respect for ourselves.

"As to "self-annointed," I served as a state chairman of YAF, YRs, CRs, Ronald Reagan's challenge to Ford in 1976, as a member of the National Executive Committees of YRs and CRs, none of which posts were "self-annointed." I was also a pro bono (free) lawyer for over 1100 pro-lifers criminally arrested for taking direct action on behalf of the unborn. 30 of the 1100 were criminally convicted or convicted of non-criminal infractions (equivalent of parking tickets). The rest were found not guilty or dismissed. Speaking of "self-annointed", what are YOUR credentials?"

I have a functioning brain.

"Also, please explain the "conservative" way of slaughtering 50+ million unborn babies or of engaging in the abuse of the nether end of the digestive tract, in a "classy" and dignified manner, of course. You DO want to persuader us to be more respectful of the despicable and even to the point of becoming a more "diverse" movement, right? How will we ever survive without the Mark Foleys????"

More strawmen and repitition.

"In any event, I absolve you of any claim that you may be part of any political movement in which I have labored. I know better and so do you."

Thank you, oh, Lord.

[BlackElk]

Great post! Everyone here should also review your first-rate home page. God bless you and yours.

[saveliberty]

http://www.reaganfoundation.org/reagan/speeches/rendezvous.asp

We disagree

[PierreLegrand]

Oh please save us the pontificating about an age that is gone. Perhaps if the Conservatives of the era Peggy longs for had done a better job of answering the lefts attacks on basic goodness we wouldn't be where we are but they didn't and so we find ourselves baring teeth staring across a Rubicon.

There is no going back. The left has been empowered by 60 years of failure to successfully respond to their attacks against the United States and now conservatives find themselves witnessing a moral decay second only to Rome in her final days. This is enough.

Peggy Noonan and her like failed to answer the left and now we find ourselves playing catch up to wrest back control of the country before we descend into open warfare. The gulf between what the left believes is theirs and what we were as a country when civility ruled the day is too wide a gulf to bridge by commonsense. Besides the Left understands like the Islamic thugs we face understand that we have an aversion to facing threats and that we will appease and deny until thousands of us die. They adopt a position then wait for us to finally compromise, then they move the goal posts again...and the kabuki theater starts again. If only one side is willing to compromise then it is a fools game to continue to deal with them.

This far no farther...we have compromised enough...given enough. When we have groups such as NAMBLA out in the open campaigning for a Major Party, when we have the Black Brigades parading around violence and we allow it, when our government confiscates a larger and larger percentage of my income to support ideas and programs I find abhorrent then we have come far enough and civility will no longer be enough. Ann Coulter is a shock trooper who fights fire with fire and those who claim that this doesn't work have not been paying attention to how well it has worked for the left. If one side of the battle is willing to use Greeks Fire and the otherside is ignorant or unwilling then we can look back into history to see which side wins.

Ann is willing to use the Lefts tactics against them. Thank goodness...the rest of you Lilly livered conservatives step aside, you have lost the right to defend our values because you have failed. If you doubt this then look around at the culture that surrounds you.