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As long as there is no independent thought, don't you mean?

Don't put words in my mouth.

There is plenty of room for independent thought on FR and we see that every day, however the mantra of 'independent thought' and 'freedom of speech' et al, is being used to trumpet and promote someone who is NOT a conservative, i.e., your hero Rudy Giuliani.

You and your fellow Rudyphiles can sing his praises, shout to the heavens why you think he should be the President of the United States, and nobody is inhibiting you, nobody is preventing you from doing that, but IF you are going to promote someone who is CLEARLY not a conservative, who is in fact a liberal politician who has more in common with the Democrat Party than with his own, you have to be prepared to encounter not only stiff, but FIERCE resistance to such promotion, because the majority of conservatives on this website (including our Founder I might add), recognize that Rudy Giuliani was not, IS not, and WON'T be a conservative Republican, and the historical record demonstrates that.

Were it not for 9/11, Rudy would already have been laughed off the electoral stage because his experience as an elected politician is limited to being elected Mayor of New York City, that's it, that's all she wrote Dear John. He was previously a prosecutor, and I'll be the first to say, apparently a damn good one. But that does not constitute the kind of experience that America needs to win this War on Terror, it certainly does not constitute the kind of beliefs and values that America needs if we are to remain true to the foundations that our Nation was built upon, we've already seen what happens when an amoral philanderer is elected President (Emperor Billigula), and the result is a degradation of the morals or America as a whole, particularly of our young people.

Rudy has the morals of an alleycat, and that is not gossip, that is not a lie, that is not partisan sniping, that is the unvarnished, absolute *TRUTH*, and his own personal behavior has more than documented that as fact.

You want to vote for Rudy in the primaries? Go for it, 'vote early and vote often' if that gives you the warm fuzzies, but don't insult the intelligence of conservatives on FR by thinking that just because you, (or any Rudy-fanatic) who are ready to bleed for Rudy or donate an organ for him to get him elected, that we're going to follow along with you.

I was once favorably inclined to support Rudy myself, but I educated myself on where he stands, what he believes, and the best thing I can say for him is that he did a good job as Mayor of NYC, especially on 9/11, and he gave one helluva speech at the '04 GOP convention.

But presidential material? CONSERVATIVE presidential material?

Not even close.

If we compromise our beliefs by pretending that because Rudy happens to have an 'R' next to his name, that it makes him the best Republican candidate, we make fools and liars of ourselves.

We who believe in the sanctity of human life are not going to elect a man who stated that it's "not as serious to murder an unborn child as it is to murder a child already alive", we are not going to elect a man who thinks the Second Amendment is just something to protect the rights of hunters to track down deer when it's in season, we're not going to elect a man who sees no conflict in marching for the 'rights' of homosexuals, intermixed with activist pedophiles who seek to molest and rape our children should their agendas be achieved. No true conservative, indeed NO TRUE REPUBLICAN, would seek to embrace such left of center positions, and then without any shame at all, WALLOW and RELISH in them, as Rudy has done.

If Americans want to elect a left-liberal Democrat, all they have to do is throw the 'D' lever on Election Day 2008, they don't have to do the Dance of the Seven RINOs and throw the lever for Rudy or any other Rockefeller Republican should they manage to be nominated by the GOP.