Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

An aging fleet has Air Force worried
The Seattle Times ^ | March 4th, 2007 | Dave Montgomery

Posted on 03/05/2007 9:58:23 PM PST by Paul Ross

WASHINGTON -- At a time the nation is at war in Iraq and Afghanistan, the U.S. Air Force is battling another enemy: age.

The average age of military aircraft during the Vietnam War in 1973 was nine years. Today, the average age is 24 years, and venerable planes such as the KC-135 Stratotanker and the B-52H Stratofortress are well into their 40s, nearly twice as old as some of their pilots.

(Excerpt) Read more at seattletimes.nwsource.com ...


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Government; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: aging; bushbash; crisis; decrepitude; defense
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-55 next last
Truly frightening how decrepit the Fleet is getting...with all of the speed restrictions being placed on all the bulk of our fighters.
1 posted on 03/05/2007 9:58:25 PM PST by Paul Ross
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: GOP_1900AD; Jeff Head; Travis McGee; kattracks; cva66snipe; ALOHA RONNIE; maui_hawaii; ...
FYI.

Things are much, much worse than we are being told.

2 posted on 03/05/2007 10:11:16 PM PST by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Paul Ross
I might ask what parts, on average, are 20 or 40 years old?

As long as aircraft are continually checked and upgraded, then what realistic concerns might exist?

3 posted on 03/05/2007 10:12:05 PM PST by SteveMcKing
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Paul Ross

Bush has had how many years to rectify this problem?


4 posted on 03/05/2007 10:15:42 PM PST by KantianBurke (Bush is NOT Jesus)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SteveMcKing
I might ask what parts, on average, are 20 or 40 years old?

Like 90+ % of them. Such as virtually all of the fuselage, wingboxes and wings etc. And that is what is now giving way, along with the electronics, which if you had read the article and not just the headline...you would already know the answer to your next question:

As long as aircraft are continually checked and upgraded, then what realistic concerns might exist?

We are headed into new and dangerous territory for attempting to maintain these craft. Many of which were never designed to be operated for lengthy time frames without replacement. Such as the F-16.

5 posted on 03/05/2007 10:18:04 PM PST by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Paul Ross
B-52H Stratofortress are well into their 40s, nearly twice as old as some of their pilots.

Hmmmmmmm. I thought the AF had life extension program(s) for the BUFFs that would extend them well into the 2020s.

6 posted on 03/05/2007 10:22:14 PM PST by Red Steel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: KantianBurke
Bush has had how many years to rectify this problem?

Six full years. And his initial response upon getting in...was paradoxically after having campaigned promising to fix this...was to freeze procurement dollar increases to simple inflation levels.

The evidence is that when the Pentagon told him flat out that it needed about $200 billion...in constant 2000-level dollars (since greatly depreciated by inflation) he simply refused to believe it, and concluded they were either lying or that he could somehow stave off the day of reckoning until Hitlery gets into the White House.

7 posted on 03/05/2007 10:22:15 PM PST by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: SteveMcKing
As long as aircraft are continually checked and upgraded, then what realistic concerns might exist?

Stress fractures to the airframes.

8 posted on 03/05/2007 10:24:34 PM PST by Doofer
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Paul Ross
Pentagon told him flat out that it needed about $200 billion...in constant 2000-level dollars

How would President Bush get the money for it? At the time, it was more important to cut taxes and I agree with him on that one.

9 posted on 03/05/2007 10:27:09 PM PST by MinorityRepublican (Everyone that doesn't like what America and President Bush has done for Iraq can all go to HELL)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Paul Ross
Many of which were never designed to be operated for lengthy time frames without replacement. Such as the F-16.

I'm reading that the F-35As are due to enter the service next year. The F-16s should be able to hang on as a frontline fighter for 3 to 4 more years.

10 posted on 03/05/2007 10:28:08 PM PST by Red Steel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Red Steel
H'mmmmm. I thought the AF had life extension program(s) for the BUFFs that would extend them well into the 2020s.

There are. But how good are they? No one really knows.

And then think about priorities and the deterrence factor. Do you really think that was a good idea?

When we had vastly more modern nd capable B-1Bs that Bush has instead forcibly retired half the fleet? The B-1B proved to the most versatile and effective bomber we have in the Iraq war. Yet it is being savaged in the budgets of the administration...while funding is devoted towards keeping the B-52H "maintained" supposedly. We'll see, I guess.

And just what will we have after 2020 do you suppose? H'mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

11 posted on 03/05/2007 10:32:10 PM PST by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Paul Ross
When I was in Afghanistan our 1982 C-130s were the newest in the squadron. The rest were 1963 models. 44 year old airplanes flying daily combat missions. That is truly a testament to the venerable Hercules, but they are showing their age.
12 posted on 03/05/2007 10:35:01 PM PST by AlaskaErik (Everyone should have a subject they are ignorant about. I choose professional corporate sports.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Doofer

I remember we had a older model C-130 that had its wings fall off here in California. The airplane was a firefighting conversion and might have had excessive g forces applied which might have led to the catotropic failure. I worry that the aging B-52 may have similar problems. Especially since they have changed its mission to low level bombing.


13 posted on 03/05/2007 10:39:15 PM PST by pterional
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: SteveMcKing

http://www.corrosion-doctors.org/Aircraft/Aloha.htm


14 posted on 03/05/2007 10:39:20 PM PST by Mount Athos
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: SteveMcKing

One can never see the internal stress on metal.

It can fracture from inside out. I had that happen on an auto axle. Not a lot of fun.

These are aircraft. Think of the stress they endure.


15 posted on 03/05/2007 10:41:25 PM PST by Prost1 (Fair and Unbiased as always!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Red Steel
I'm reading that the F-35As are due to enter the service next year. The F-16s should be able to hang on as a frontline fighter for 3 to 4 more years

At current and projected production rates, we will start making them next year! They are definitely not proved out yet. Think about autos and the first ones off the assembly line. This is worse. In all likelihood, the F-35 will not begin to enter the fleet in force until 2012. So whatever you are "reading" it just ain't so. The F-35 is indeed a part of the solution...but it isn't being prioritized and funded the way it needs to be.

And consider this evidence of lack of urgency by this administration: With the belated debut of the F-35 in miniscule numbers at the end of next year...what did the administration do? They have forcibly scheduled for complete termination of all production of the proven and viable F-22...(too costly they claim) ....the only real air superiority plane we have to repace the F-15. And potentially with navalizing, it could make a real replacement for the now-forcibly-retired-without replacement F-14.

Guess it (the F-14) wasn't "able to hang on as a frontline fighter for 3 to 4 more years."

Now the Navy is stuck with the "affordable" Super F-18.... planes noticeably way slower, way less range, and correspondingly less loitering capability...and no real equivalent to the capabilities of the Phoenix missile system. Translation: No real interception capability. Can't stop the new Russian supersonic cruise missiles or long-range backfire bombers they are selling to China.

The Tomcat could. But now its gone.

Could be the national epitaph.

16 posted on 03/05/2007 10:44:31 PM PST by Paul Ross (Ronald Reagan-1987:"We are always willing to be trade partners but never trade patsies.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Paul Ross
And just what will we have after 2020 do you suppose? H'mmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

Oh, I'm sure they'll be some new bomber that will be coming on line. And oh, I'm certain that our many future UAVs will be in place to swarm over the enemy defenses.

And furthermore...

"USAF is pushing a three-phase bomber plan, but the next new bomber is the centerpiece. The 2018 Bomber and Its Friends

Finally, after years of study, controversy, changes of course, and shifts of timetables, plans for a new Air Force long-range strike aircraft—a bomber—have come into focus. The goal: Have a powerful new system on the ramp and operational no later than the year 2018. "

...snip...

"The “2018 bomber” is but one part—the middle part—of a much broader long-range strike modernization program.

First comes the strengthening of existing aircraft. The Air Force will continue to fly many of its B-1, B-2, and B-52 bombers for decades to come, as each platform offers a unique set of strike capabilities. Planned improvements should keep these aircraft combat-ready into the 2030s."

-end snip-

http://www.afa.org/magazine/oct2006/10062018.asp

We may have some metal fatigue issues because the future planners didn't anticipate the extended flying over the Middle East. However, I'm sure we'll come up with the solutions and fundings for it.

17 posted on 03/05/2007 11:03:24 PM PST by Red Steel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: Paul Ross
But my prescription drugs are more important!

Couldn't the aviators take turns flying the same airplane?

/sarc off

Is 'navalizing" a real word? That sounds like something McNamara did in reverse with the F-4 during the 60's.
18 posted on 03/05/2007 11:08:58 PM PST by LurkingSince1943 (Former War Criminal)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]

To: SteveMcKing
"As long as aircraft are continually checked and upgraded, then what realistic concerns might exist?"

1) The ones they haven't found ... yet.
2) The ones that require totally new manufacture of old parts in order to correct them.
3) The ones they've found, they've (somehow) acquired parts for, and that now have a band aid covering the lesion.

There is a whole lot of open space between last generation bombers, tankers, and second tier fighters and the unmanned wonder craft that many expect will make them finally obsolete.

19 posted on 03/05/2007 11:23:12 PM PST by norton
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Paul Ross
I don't expect all the F-16s will be replaced in 3 to 4 years. But I expect the F35s will be in significant numbers by FY 2013 when the AF expects to have about 500 F-35s, according to globalsecurity.org. That's good enough for 27 18-ship squadrons
20 posted on 03/05/2007 11:24:19 PM PST by Red Steel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 16 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first 1-2021-4041-55 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
News/Activism
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson