Exclusive Guest Post For Polipundit: Free Compean And Ramos By Duncan Hunter

PoliPundit ^ | 3/5/07 | Duncan Hunter

[pissant]

I would like to thank Polipundit and Michael Illions, who has been helping out my campaign, for giving me the opportunity to write a guest post about the injustice that has been done to two of our border guards, Jose Alonso Compean and Ignacio Ramos, both of whom have been sentenced to jail for more than a decade each.

Now certainly our border patrol agents are not above the law and it is not acceptable for them to abuse or mistreat illegal aliens. That being said, the Border Patrol is America’s first line of defense against the terrorists, drug smugglers, and gangs who try to illegally enter the United States. Acting as the first line of defense for our country, the men and women of the Border Patrol are in a very dangerous position. Every day they risk their lives guarding our borders.

I have read the relevant portions of the trial transcript. Agents Ramos and Compean have a version of the facts that is different than the drug smuggler’s. However, it is not necessary to determine whose testimony is more believable (although I find the Border Agents’ testimony more credible than the drug smuggler’s) for this reason: even if you believe the drug smuggler’s testimony that he was slightly wounded while escaping to Mexico, his wounding cannot, by the greatest stretch of criminal justice, justify the 11 and 12 year prison sentences given to Ramos and Compean. The average convicted murderer in America spends less than 8 1/2 years behind bars. That means that Ramos and Compean have been given murder sentences for the slight wounding of a drug smuggler. Thus, the prison sentences of these two agents represent a severe injustice.

For those who point out that the agents picked up the expended brass from their pistols after the incident and did not report it to their superiors, the answer is simply that picking up brass and failure to report is not murder and does not justify a murder sentence in the federal penitentiary. As a member of the Armed Services Committee for 26 years, I have never seen a Marine or soldier treated as severely as Ramos and Compean.

We cannot turn our back on Agents Compean and Ramos or the rest of the public servants in the U.S. Border Patrol and that’s why I urge George Bush to pardon both agents. I intend to keep attention focused on this case to insure their safety while they are in prison and to secure their release as soon as possible so they can return home to their families. That is also why I introduced H.R. 563, which would pardon Compean and Ramos. The bill already has more than 85 sponsors in the House. If that bill fails and President Bush does not do the right thing, I pledge that if I’m elected President, one of my first acts will be to grant pardons to both agents.

[MEGoody]

You notice in the next to the last paragraph Hunter uses the word "murder".

He used that word because, as he indicates in the previous paragraphs, the 10 year sentence was longer than most murderers end up spending in prison. He's indicating that picking up the casings was not murder, meaning it should not be worth a sentence longer than a murderer would spend in prison.

[Ben Ficklin]

mandatory sentencing

[Bob J]

I don't know if you're a gunowner, but if you're clips hang on a utility belt next to your hip, they aren't anywhere near your knee. Standing, bending, laying down, they are always right there on your belt on your hip. They don't walk around and they don't hide.

This is another one of you lines of reasoning that has me shaking my head.

[Bob J]

"the 10 year sentence was longer than most murderers end up spending in prison. "

So you're saying murders might get sentenced to more time, 20, 40 years, maybe life, but they average getting out in 10?

That sounds like a parole problem, not a justice system problem.

[AndrewC]

I don't know if you're a gunowner, but if you're clips hang on a utility belt next to your hip, they aren't anywhere near your knee.

Obviously, I am not being clear to you. Sit in a chair. How easy is it to reach into your pocket to get change while you are seated? Not easy is it? You must stand or stretch your leg out to reach into the pocket. That is due to the bent waist. I thought the pictures and schema were clear on that. When you have a leg up and bent, as you do when down on one knee, the leg that does not have the knee on the ground makes access to objects on your waist more difficult. The side with the leg that has the knee on the ground is not obstructed. If you don't understand that, I can't help you.

I know the following picture has a rifle and not a pistol, but it clearly shows that the person will have difficulty accessing things on his left waist.

[calcowgirl]

I took a look at Juarez's testimony again, specifically the part where he purportedly witnesses Compean shooting and exchanging magazines, all "from the waist up." Juarez indicates he was standing by his van (or the van?) when he witnessed the shooting. He testified earlier that his vehicle was parked all the way up with the tires touching the lip of the ditch. As we know, the van was even a few feet further south with its tires hanging over the edge of the ditch. He also testifies that Compean was "halfway down the levee" and "halfway from the levee to the vega" both descriptions indicating a distance of about 15 feet down the south slope of the levee.

Here's recap of the relevant testimony:

Juarez - Direct by Mr. Gonzalez, Volume 9, p. 17ff

10 Q. Thank you. So you're standing by your van and you hear
11    what?
12 A. I hear shots. That's when I turned around. And that's
13    when I saw Agent Compean shooting.
14 Q. Okay. Where was he shooting from? Where was he standing
15    when you saw -- first you heard the shots, right?
16 A. Yes.
17 Q. How many shots did you hear?
18 A. There were couple of fast, boom, boom, boom.
19 Q. And that's what makes you turn around?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And what do you see? Where is he standing?
22 A. He was -- he was not all the way inside, but he was almost
23    halfway from the -- from the levee to the vega. He was not --
24    he was halfway down from the levee.
.
.
2  Q. This is the levee road, correct?
3  A. On the top. Where the units are parked.
4  Q. And is he somewhere in this area?
5  A. A little bit farther south.
6  Q. What do you mean south?
7  A. A little bit more. All you see here --
8  Q. Let's pretend the van --
9  A. All you see is the levee. So he was more inside -- on the
10    other side of the levee.
11 Q. Could you see all of his body from where you were standing?
12 A. No, I did not.
13 Q. How much of his body could you see from where you were
14    standing?
15 A. I could see waist up.
16 Q. So had he already started going down the side of the levee
17    road?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. When you say waist up -- pretend I'm Agent Compean. How
20    much of me would you see?
21 A. I could see a little bit here by where your hands are.
22 Q. Waist up?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. And where are his hands positioned?
25 A. He has the fire stance position. Holding his weapon like
1     this.
.
.
5  Q. Fire stance?
6  A. Yes.
7  Q. What is that?
8  A. When you're ready to shoot.
9  Q. Why don't you point in this direction. And just point what
10    you saw.
11 A. He was like this. And, of course, boom, boom, boom, boom.
12    And that's when I noticed he dropped -- something black
13    dropped. And I noticed there was a pause. Then he reached
14    over to do a magazine exchange. And after that, it was boom --
15    two. And after that he disappeared.
16 Q. When you say he disappeared --
17 A. South. I could no longer see him at all.
18 Q. Okay. And what is this, sir, Government's Exhibit 39B?
19 A. That is a magazine.
20 Q. And is this what you saw drop out of the handgun?
21 A. Yes.
22 Q. Did you count the number of times that he fired?
23 A. No. But they were -- they were a lot of rounds.
24 Q. And do you know how many rounds are in a magazine?
25 A. That magazine has a capacity of 11 rounds, plus the one in
1     the chamber.
2  Q. So at least 11 rounds were fired from the first magazine.
3  Is that correct?
4  A. Yes.
5  Q. And then you saw him actually change the magazine?
6  A. Yes, I did.

I did some calculations this morning based on line-of-sight slope, heights and distances from testimony on the layout of the levee to determine whether Juarez could have seen Compean "from the waist up" based on the distances given in testimony. I calculated from the ditch itself and then moving northward 5 feet ("by the van"). It failed on both counts so I calculated what the result would be if I placed Juarez 20 feet north on Jess Harris Road. It still failed. Compean would have had to be standing only a few feet from the top (south edge) of the levee road to have been seen as Juarez claims.

Number of feet that Compean could have been visible to Juarez on levee.			

                          North side     5 feet    20 feet 
                               Ditch      north      north
                             -------    -------    -------
15 ft south of levee rd        -1.52      -1.44      -0.21
10 ft south                     0.28       0.35       1.17
6 ft south                      1.72       1.78       2.56
4 ft south                      2.44       2.49       3.25
2 ft south                      3.16       3.21       3.94
South edge of levee rd          4.58       4.62       5.33

[calcowgirl]

Since I'm late to all of these posts, I'll try to address the subject matter and the points made in various posts. This post goes to the definitions of Point 3 and 4, and to where OAD was physically located when shooting began.

Exhibit 54 - Points 1, 2, 3, and 4 (see testimony below)

• Point 1: Where Compean and OAD "met" at the ditch and had "altercation"
• Point 2: Point at which OAD crossed levee
• Point 3: Point at which OAD fell (after being shot -- at the river)
• Point 4: Point at which OAD saw "puffs" of dirt from gunshots, halfway from the levee road to the Rio Grande (or, 115 ft).

Note: Points 1 through 3 in a southbound sequence. Point 4 is north of Point 3.

I can also find absolutely no reference in OAD's testimony to him saying that he heard shots, only reference to seeing "puffs" around his feet. As to BobJ's supposition that shots were fired before he reached Point 4 on the Exhibit (i.e. somewhere north of the midpoint of the levee road and the Rio Grande), I can see absolutely zero evidence or testimony to support that theory. In fact, I see the opposite specifically stated in OAD's testimony. OAD testified that he "put his hands over his head" at the point when he "began to see the bullets in the sand."

Aldrete-Davila - Direct by Mr. Gonzalez p.111-113

18 Q. Point 1 is where you and the agent met at the ditch,
19 correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. And did you cross the levee road, sir?
.
25 Q. After you were running, sir -- while you were running,
1  where did you cross?
2  A. I crossed through the levee.
3  Q. Is that shown as point Number 2 on this exhibit?
4  A. Yes.
5  Q. And do you recognize point 3 on Government's Exhibit 54?
6  A. Yes.
7  Q. And what happened at point 3?
8  A. That's where I fell.
9  Q. Now, Mr. Aldrete-Davila, as you're running back, do you
10    ever slow down?
.
13 A. No.
.
4  Q. Okay. You're running back, correct?
5  A. Yes.
6  Q. And, as you're running back, do you notice anything around
7     your feet?
8  A. Yes, the bullets that were picking up dust.
.
12 Q. Let me show you once again Government's Exhibit 54. In
13    what area of Government's Exhibit 54 did you see the puffs of
14    dirt at your feet?
15 A. From 4 to 3, more or less.
16 Q. And what you're testifying about is halfway between the
17    levee road and the Rio Grande on the vega, halfway -- the
18    halfway point to the Rio Grande. That's where you saw the
19    puffs?
20 A. Yes. In the place where it was halfway to the river,
21    that's where I could see it. That's where the puffs were.
18 Q. And, Mr. Osvaldo Aldrete-Davila, this is where you and the
19    agent meet. Is that correct?
20 A. Yes.
21 Q. Now, this is the path that you take, correct?
22 A. Yes.
23 Q. And this is where you fall. Is that what you testified to
24    earlier?
25 A. Yes.
1  Q. And from this point to that point, that's where you see the
2     puffs of smoke, point Number 4 and point Number 3? That's 4
3     right there, and 3 (indicating).
4  A. Yes.
5  Q. Thank you.
.
9  Q. Let me show you Government's Exhibit 56A, or marked as
10    Government's Exhibit 56A for identification. Do you recognize
11    what's shown in this photograph, sir?
12 A. Yes.
13 Q. What does it show, sir?
14 A. The edge of the river, where I fell.
15 Q. And, when you're running towards this location, what are
16    you thinking at that point in time?
17 A. Well, I'm just covering my head. And I'm thinking that,
18    even though they're shooting bullets at me, I don't think
19    they're going to shoot to kill.
20 Q. Mr. Aldrete-Davila, show the jury how were you were
21    running. Where were your hands?
22 A. Here in my head. I was a little -- I was a little bit
23    leaning down, with my hands this way (indicating), and I was
24    looking towards the sand.
25 Q. And, at what point, did you put your hands over your head
1     as you're running back to Mexico?
2  A. When I began to see the bullets in the sand. When I
3     started seeing the bullets hit the sand, that's when I covered
4     up my head.
5  Q. So, from point 4 to point 3, you have your hands on your
6     head. Is that what you are you saying?
.
10 A. Yes.

[Bob J]

The magazines are not in your pocket, they are in an individual pouch that is securely attached to utility belt around your waist. The center of the magazine and pouch is close to the center of the pouch so they don't swing when you walk or rotate if jostled.

If I stand, they hang straight down, if I sit they hang straight down, If I'm on one knee, they hang straight down. They don't move to your knee and they can't get up and walk away. The only way for them to change their vertical orientation is to lay flat on the floor.

You're waist is not bent when on one knee. Your legs are but the magazines are not attached to your legs.I do understand what you're saying, I don't know how you arrive at that conclusion.

[calcowgirl]

This has to be the funniest thing I've seen you post. ... For those cartridges to make it to the top and side of the levee road ...

Laugh all you want. Making it to the top and side of the levee road was not the question.

Again, WTF are you talking about? Vasquez exactly identified the positions of the casings ...

Take your trash talk somewhere else. The question was not about Vasquez! The question was relative to Compean's statement only.

Bob, I'm noticing a lot of posts by with slurs about someone called CCG. Perhaps if there is something I post that you disagree with, you could post it as a response to the specific statement I have made so I can appropriately address it. As it is, I will ignore them and again recommend Dale Carnegie. Can we get back to a civil discussion without putting words in other's mouth and wrongly stating others positions? Please?

[calcowgirl]

The evidence leads me to believe that they all play this cat and mouse game on the border, that agents will try to apprehend them but once a perp has a lead and a close clear line to the border, the agents stop pursuing and let them go. If even goes so far as the agents popping off a few rounds in their direction. The perp and the agents know there is no intent to hit anyone, just a little reminder that they are BPA,they got guns, and they shouldn't mess with them in the future. A warning shot over OVD's bow.

Since you are suggesting that this is widespread behavior, I'm wondering if you think it is also behavior well known to supervisors. And if so, do you think that those shootings are regularly reported by the agents orally to their supervisors or if agents are somehow able to do this keep the "cat and mouse game" a secret. [Truthfully, this sounds like the OIG "rogue agents out to shoot Mexicans" story to me.]

[Bob J]

Juarez couldn't see the south slope of the levee from where he was and he never crossed the ditch so it's reasonable to assume he never did saw it. Consequently, he didn't know if the slope was 10' long or 30'. When asked he merely gave an estimate based on what little knowledge he could ascertain.

What he does state clearly several times is that he saw Compean from the waist up. Period. Anything else is just a guess, so again, I'm not sure why this is big deal to you.

"Compean would have had to be standing only a few feet from the top (south edge) of the levee road to have been seen as Juarez claims."

Agreed. Compean was only a feet feet from the top of the levee when Juarez saw him.

[calcowgirl]

Just in case you need an example of the type of post I'm referring to, you said: "AC and CGG will come in and say that of course Vasquez is lying, but they won't be able to give you a reasonable explanation why outside of some desperate conspiracy theory. They'll say the prosecution made them lie. "

This type of post is counterproductive to all.

[Bob J]

Thanks for helping me prove my point...which was that the puffs are meaningless as to when the shooting started. If OVD never heard shots than he cannot place when they started.

Under both Compeans testimony and my own opinions, Compean started firing either when OVD was entering the vega or some distance just inside. Whether that is 0, 20 or 40 feet, it certainly didn't start halfway to the Rio Grande, as AC keeps trying to insist.

Why didn't OVD hear? Don't know, maybe the roar of the vehicles and/or the strong wind drowned them out.

[AndrewC]

Did you take Juarez height into consideration?

[Bob J]

"Laugh all you want. Making it to the top and side of the levee road was not the question."

Huh? You were trying to justify how the cartridges could make it to the levee from Compeans stated position. I showed that was impossible. Other than that I don't know what you are talking about.

CCG? You shorten my name to initials and you object to me using CCG? Some might call that hypocrisy.

[calcowgirl]

This might be evidence that Compean threw casings into the canal except he testified he threw them ALL into the WATER at the bottom of the canal.

You're confusing Compean with Vasquez. Compean said he just tossed them in the ditch without any elaboration (when he went to retrieve his shotgun from the area next to the ditch). Vasquez said he went to the edge of the canal to toss them in and "watched them sink".

[AndrewC]

But you didn't finish the testimony you stopped at line 6. It is clear from the lines after that what point 4 was.

7 MS. RAMIREZ: I'm going to object as to leading,
8 Judge.
9 THE COURT: I'll overrule.
10 A. Yes.
11 BY MR. GONZALEZ:
12 Q. And, as you're approaching point 4, namely the Rio Grande
13 River, were you looking for a place to enter the river?

Line 12 tells us exactly what is being discussed.

[Bob J]

No, it may be only at the Fabens station. As for the supers kowing about it, who knows. I dount they engage in it but it may be a situation of "don't ask don't tell".

I've never suggested the supers were angels themselves. From the testimony I got the feeling they might have known more and we're CYA like everyone else. But that is why I believe R&C should have told the complete truth about operations at the Fabens station and put it on the supervisors for at best turning a blind eye. Doing that is non verbal yet tacit approval of their actions.

I remember another post that mentioned an internal BP review indicated R&C would be cleared at trial. Based on what was known this is insane. Maybe the BP brass were setting R&C up to cover their own behinds.

[calcowgirl]

I didn't see that, but I've seen a few places where Ramirez has confused testimony. I'd rely more heavily on OAD's statement that Point 3 is where he fell (i.e. the river) because Gonzalez is asking him to describe the specific place and indicate it on the map/Exhibit...

I agree they conflict, but I think it's another one of those backward maps (like the 73 ft and the 43 ft) that aren't in geographic sequence.

[Bob J]

Pardon me, but haven't you referred to me as "BJ" in some of your posts? And when I inquired did you not say you did this in the interest of brevity only?

AC = AndrewC
CCG = Calcowgirl

What's your problem?