Posted on 03/04/2007 2:53:43 AM PST by LibWhacker
You've learned well from the Dems. Simply repeat the big lie over and over and over, and pretty soon it becomes truth. That Lindbergh was a Nazi was democrat spin against a powerful Republican in 1940. But that he is "anti-American" is just something you made up from thin air and continue to repeat.
It must be frustrating for you to prove the negative that American soldiers didn't shoot Japanese soldiers under a white flag.
In a memo from Air Force Col. Turner Rogers, complained that they were being asked by the Army to strafe civilian refugee columns. From the Memo:
"It is reported that large groups of civilians, either composed of or controlled by North Korean soldiers, are infiltrating U.S. positions," the memo reads. "The army has requested that we strafe all civilian refugee parties that are noted approaching our positions. To date, we have complied with the army request in this respect."
It doesn't look like the US army had any qualms about killing yellow skined people at will, and without any evidence whatever that they harbored combatants.
What happened to these little monsters after the war...I bet some of them worked as quality control engineers for Toyota. Their first dustup with a superior was probably when they asked for live subjects for crash tests.
Another reason why the internment of Japanese Americans and aliens was NOT a mistake.
Field Marshall Goering also viewed Lindbergh as a hero, and presented him that year with the Service Cross of the German Eagle -- ornamented with four small swastikas -- for his services to German aviation. A month later, Nazis pillaged Jewish shops, killed dozens and arrested thousands on Kristallnacht, the "night of broken glass." Americans became increasingly uneasy with Lindbergh's friendship with the Nazis.
Back in the U.S., Lindbergh became the spokesperson for the America First Committee, a powerful isolationist group led by the head of Sears Roebuck. He wrote his own speeches, calling for Americans to stay out of the war.
Lindbergh told his listeners the Nazi conquest of Europe was unavoidable. Americans, he said, should turn their attention to the threat posed by non-white nations. At the time, many agreed with his isolationist views, if not his Nazi-inspired belief in "racial strength." But as Germany invaded France and began bombing England, Americans were less certain that this is a war they should stay out of.
It was a 1941 speech in Des Moines, Iowa that toppled Lindbergh. Not far from an airport he had dedicated in 1927, in a land that was once farms and cattle ranches, Lindbergh said it was time to "name names" of forces conspiring against America. "The three most important groups who have been pressing this country towards war," he said, "are the British, the Jewish and the Roosevelt Administration." He said American Jews were a "danger" to their country, citing "their large ownership and influence in our motion pictures,our press, our radio and our government."
Hmmm. That's quite some Exhibit A to your attempt to charge the U.S. Army with bigotry against the Japanese.
Is it only the Japanese fascists you sympathize with or is it the European variety too?
Even you've admitted that he did.
btw, nice try with that 'learning from the Dems' tripe.
You're the only one on this thread who is taking the word of one highly suspicious source and turning it into 'fact' by repeating it ad nauseum.
Good bye, narb. I'll let others deal with your unsubstantiated false charges. I've had quite enough of you.
The war began only a month earlier, when North Korea launched a sneak attack on June 25, 1950. A month later, the Army was in a desperate race to deploy enough troops fast enough to keep some toe hold on the Korean peninsula, where the army of the ROK was in headlong retreat. Like the jihadists of today, the North Koreans were infiltrating our lines by hiding among civilians.
July 24, 1950:
"At Yongdong a series of attacks by U.S. tanks starting around dawn against the enemy roadblock behind the 2nd Battalion, 8th Cavalry failed to dislodge the North Koreans. The 1st Battalion, 5th Cavalry Regiment and the 16th Reconnaissance Company is sent to try and break the roadblock. Meanwhile, North Korean forces kept up frontal attacks on the 1st Battalion, 8th Cavalry. These were beaten back with the help of 105mm, quad-fifty and 37mm Antiaircraft afire from supporting artillery units. As the day before, the North Korean frontal attacks were diversions to allow several platoon-sized units infiltrate around 1st Battalion positions. Some infiltrators came down the main road, dressed as civilian refugees."
July 26, 1950:
"While the 7th Cavalry was trying to reassemble other elements of the 1st Cavalry Division held their positions at Yongdong. The North Koreans mounted small probing attacks to tied these elements down while sending a regiment in a sweeping flanking movement through Chirye and thence toward Kumch'on. That night North Koreans mounted a major attack against 1st Cavalry elements at Yongdong by DRIVING SEVERAL HUNDRED REFUGEES AHEAD OF THEM THROUGH AMERICAN MINES FIELDS. This attack was repulsed."
By early August the UN forces had been driven into the tiny Pusan Perimeter and were under relentless attack. The Air Corps was doing something it ordinarily would not do but in the circumstances was essential to survival.
CNN's deliberately dishonest hit piece, repeated by you, was contemptible.
You don't know anything about the history of WWII or you'd know Germany suffered nearly a million civilian dead. And you would know that incendiary bombs were indeed used in raids on Germany. It was simply impossible given the technology of the day to minimize civilian deaths from bombing the way we can today.
And whose fault was it that Japan suffered such devastation from the urban bombing campaign??? Any government remotely concerned about its citizenry or the future of its nation would have surrendered before it ever got to that point. But the Japanese fascists refused - they were apparently willing to allow the total destruction of almost all their major cities - until TWO atomic bombs persuaded them to do the right thing. That blood is on the hands of Tojo and his fellow fanatic fascists.
JMP; first of all, nobody here ever said all of our soldiers are darling little angels. In fact, if you read all the posts from OWF and myself and others, we specifically state that.
Second; the tactic of equating moral relevance, i.e. 'they did bad things but so did we' is right out of the liberal/socialist/commie playbook, and it has no place here on FR.
Third; although others have already pointed this out to you, one must question why; why, on a private property, conservative website, why one individual would take it upon him/herself to post unsubstantiated claims, and they are unsubstantiated claims, about alleged American atrocirties, on a thread that is about documented and admitted Japanese atrocities.
Let's play this out in a comparison that you may understand; on a private website for born again Christian conservatives, someone posts a thread about the beauty of Jesus' love, His mercy, His grace. Then someone different posts on that same thread something from the OT that appears to contradict that, and stubbornly supports it despite no proven overall knowledge about the rest of the Bible.
Now, take it one step further. That poster has a history of doing things like that. What should be done? Allow that person to continue to abuse the privilege of posting on private property against the stated mission and charter of the website...or pretend it's OK, or do nothing, or just say 'we believe in diversity'? And, allow that poster to tear down Jesus?
The short answer is, no way. And, since this site is a stated conservative website, and not a liberal debating platform, then those such statements and those tactiics are to be questioned vigorously, and exposed for what they are.
Fourth; the poster several made very specific statements about "I see Americans pridefully beating their chest in a way that says "we are good", but "they were evil". Sorry, it's not that simple", or another one such as "my agenda is to slow down the pride and chest beating that America's enemys are evil, while our soldiers are saints."
Well, sorry to have to tell him, but it pretty much is that simple from a high level. Again, these are typical lib/soc/commie tactics and we should not stand for it. But I did take the time to remind the poster about why we were a force for good in the world, and they were a force for evil. There is no getting around it. Our soldiers may not be 100% saints, but our mission was for good and against evil. Anyone who disagrees with that is questionable on this site.
Fifth; he is inaccurate in several statements, i.e. "firebomb raids killed far more civilians in Tokyo, Kyoto, etc"...just flat wrong, we never firebombed Kyoto or any bombing of Kyoto.
Next; you mentioned about me calling in other 'like-minded' people to gang up and bully the poster. I have some news for you, that this site is primarily for like-minded people. It is not an open forum for anti-American, anti-military, liberal debate or discussion. I'm not saying this poster is all of that, but those unsubstantiated accusations sure fit that description better than it does the founders statement on the home page. The reason I pinged other people, btw, most of whom I do not know from an interaction on FR perspective, was to expose this to people who I knew would take great offense to these accusations.
You have not been around here long enough to have experienced first hand the many attacks, disruptions, false conservatives...you name it. There are people out to tarnish this site, and thank God that Jim has maintained the courage to stick with it. FR has also been a 'self-policed' forum, which is why we have the abuse buttons and how disruptors get zotted. Those who openly go against the mission and purpose of this website get called on the carpet and have a chance to subtantiate their accusations or not. They either have game, or they don't.
Some of the people I pinged are well known to the poster and have dealt with these type of 'dodgy' exchanges before. Virtually everyone who was pinged that replied had the same reaction as I did, whether they knew the poster previously or not.
Last; on a personal note, in typical fashion of this poster, he made an offhand comment that inferred that my father, a decorated WWII vet in CBI theater, may have done something horrible..."If in your imagination you think that I'm slandering your father, then you're one with a problem (unless you actually are covering for something he did). "...now, I never responded to that because I think that speaks for itself, in the same way that his comments such as "I reserve the spit on those who murdered under color of war, and don't have the bravery to admit it after 50 years. " and "If American soldiers murdered Japanese soldiers while under a whte flag, then I would hope that they would be man enough to admit to it, as this Japanese guy did. "...which clearly exonerates the admitted Japanese torturer because he admitted it, but calls the American soldiers "less of a man" because nobody admitted something they have not been objectively charged with.
So, if all of that is not enough for you to understand the dangerous notion of those comments by that poster, well...what can I say.
Obviously you don't know about the battles of the 8th Air Force to make daylight bombing work, specifically so we didn't have to do night time firebomb raids. It was the British that flew those.
It was simply impossible given the technology of the day to minimize civilian deaths from bombing the way we can today.
There was a specific time when the US made a conscious decision to stop flying HE bomb missions against Japanese military targets, and began firebombing their cities.
That blood is on the hands of Tojo and his fellow fanatic fascists.
I get your point. Two wrongs make a right. Because the Japs were barbaric, it was OK if Americans were barbaric. Then Lindbergh was right. American soldiers did murder Japanese soldiers under a white flag, and you think that's just fine.
Did it ever occur to you that the decision to change bombing tactics happened after Iwo Jima and coincident with the Okinawa campaign, when it became obvious all the previous campaigns and the impending losses of two islands the Japanese considered home territory would not cause a surrender? Our choice was either to target Japanese civilians and destroy their will to resist or prepare for millions of dead, both Japanese and Allied, in a ground invasion. Responding to Japanese aggression and fanaticism in the way we did was not a second "wrong" - unless you are on the same moral equivalence kick as the America hater crowd.
You probably agree with John Kerry that using .50 cal. on troops is a "war crime."
I hope no one minds, but I think this has gone on long enough.
I'd like to report this post to the Mods and JimRob, just for the record.
If narby is going to continue to post on this precious website maligning our troops like this, I think JimRob ought to know about it.
Post #210
No objection. Hunting for troll is fun, but it can get old.
Indeed. And this is very old.
shoo fly. don't bother me. never again. never.
One and the same. You nailed it.
Post 217: One and the same. You nailed it.
Make up your mind.
It's not enought that NewLand has to call in his buddies in order to bully me around. Now you make threats in JimRob's name.
If narby is going to continue to post on this precious website maligning our troops like this, I think JimRob ought to know about it.
All I've done is repeat the testimony of Charles Lindbergh, American Hero, and witness to several theaters of war from 1942 through 1945. NewLand, you and others have called me names, insulted me in various ways, and in general bullied me around.
I'm an American patriot. I'm ex-military. I admire our men in action today, and those in the past. I was shocked when I read what Lindbergh wrote of what he saw, but I believe him. It makes sense. I explains several other things I've seen in the history, but I'm confident it was the exception, not the rule.
Sometimes Mai Li massacres happen. Sometimes killing fields at No Gun Ri Korea happen. And sometimes Americans justify battle field atrocities because those on the other side did such-and-such. People on this very thread have implied that same rationalization, that the Japs were so evil, that whatever we did to them was justified. I live in confidence that America will survive pointing out the fact that not every one of use is perfect.
I rest my case.
use = us
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