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Watch your flanks, America! (China Watch)
Yahoo News/Christian Science Monitor ^ | 2/26/07 | Peter Navarro

Posted on 02/26/2007 12:17:57 PM PST by khnyny

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To: Jonathan

I read the article.

Yes, they will buy up a bunch of companies, and putatively be owners of those companies.

Americans can nevertheless prevent the Chinese from being our masters, in such a circumstance, through a nasty and little-known-tactic called "Changing the rules of the game". See, RIGHT NOW, to "own" a company means that you get to take all the decisions, and nobody gets to watch you do it. But if you start having a foreign adversary really aggressively get in your face, to "own" a company could easily become what it has become in many countries in Europe, (I'm thinking about France) where there is a "Golden Share" in privatized companies, one measly little share which the government owns...which share, by the way, has full rights of inspection of the books, gets to put a member on the board and the audit committee and see all the books, and gets a veto on everything the other 99 million shareholders do.

Now, to be sure, the Golden Share's prerogatives are not used lightly, and business is left alone, largely, but whenever anything of strategic importance comes up, the French government uses its ownership of that one share and dictates the answer to the company, under penalty of law. The government does this discreetly and not very often, or else the value of shares on the CAC 40 would be low. Actually, those values are very, very high, so this sort of "Golden Share" works rather well at protecting national strategic interests.

Sure, it's not "cricket". It means that the Chinese come in as a buyer, like everybody else, and once they're deeply in and OWN the companies, suddenly we change the laws and the rules so that they do not have the same authority as owners of the company that an owner had before. Oh well. That's why states are more powerful than companies, because states make laws, and laws determine what ownership MEANS.

China is a Communist country. It's a trade rival. It may be an enemy someday. Just because we have always had a certain concept of what "ownership" means doesn't mean, when it's our sovereignty at stake, that we cannot, just like that, steal all the companies and property that the Chinese rightfully and legally buy in this company, just like we rounded up the Japanese and took THEIR property, or made treaties with the Indians and took their property as soon as they were disarmed and the ink was dry.

It's not "cricket", but so what?
If the Chinese play nice, then we play nice. If the Chinese don't play nice, let them spend two trillion dollars buying up all of the shares of all of the American companies. Then change the laws to watch what they do, and if they try to use that ownership to start running the United States, use the power of law to take their companies away from them (without repaying the money). It's called "nationalization". China did it. Britain did it. France did it. All countries have done it. The US EFFECTIVELY did it during World War II with manufacturing firms (though leaving the ownership in place).

Let the Chinese invest. Use the laws to diminsh the power that ownership currently gives in American society. They can make money here (which we print), but they cannot buy influence here. If they try, take their company away from them, steal it by law. They will scream, mewl and puke, and lose. Because we're here and they're not.

Surely you don't believe that we're going to let a little bauble like "historical concepts of property rights" allow foreigners to rule us by simply buying us out? We will legally steal back our sovereignty if that's what we have to do. National sovereignty trumps property rights.


21 posted on 02/26/2007 2:32:26 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: RightWhale

And you were dead right.

I screamed it from the rooftops starting the moment I got home from Ground Zero and showered off the white dust and threw out the suit I was wearing that day.

We had to declare war.
It was so damned obvious.

But we didn't.
And that is the fault of the Bush Administration.


22 posted on 02/26/2007 2:34:34 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: RightWhale
Not by a long shot. They are also capable of reading any article that we can, including keeping track of what the concerns of those who post on FR seem to be. Anything we hear about, the White House heard about a month ago and saw coming a year ago.

If you say so. Perhaps there are other government agencies that are not quite so capable. Two very high level FBI counterintelligence officers had affairs with Chinese spy Katrina Leung, btw, then the FBI and Federal prosecutors mishandled the prosecution.

"Ultimately, prosecutors had to settle for a plea deal with Leung. The deal, reached on December 16, 2005, spared Leung from serving jail time or having to admit anything about passing illegally copied classified information to Communist China."

If you investigate this story, it's mind-boggling.
23 posted on 02/26/2007 2:41:05 PM PST by khnyny
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To: Jonathan

Good points. Isn't this what Duncan Hunter has been saying? He's the only candidate that has the ba!!$ to come out and warn us about China's plan.


24 posted on 02/26/2007 2:42:50 PM PST by panaxanax (Ronald Reagan would vote for Duncan Hunter!)
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To: khnyny

Gives you something to think about it


25 posted on 02/26/2007 2:45:06 PM PST by StoneWall Brigade ("Republicanism did not make conservatism a majority; conservatism made Republicanism a majority.)
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To: panaxanax

Which is why I support Duncan Hunter, among other things.


26 posted on 02/26/2007 2:46:35 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: Vicomte13

f China really did dump a trillion in bonds on the market, for pennies on the dollar, the US could inflate the currency and BUY THE BONDS BACK for pennies on the dollar, wiping out a trillion dollars in US national debt in the twinkling of an eye.


.... I think you need to think this one through just a bit ....


27 posted on 02/26/2007 2:46:51 PM PST by THEUPMAN (####### comment deleted by moderator)
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To: Vicomte13

Great idea.

Too bad that it will NEVER happen.

Our leaders are corrupt.

Our captains of industry are also unsound and treasonous.

We no longer have the moral or spiritual ability to do what is right and to protect our nation and Constitution.

China has already bought up tooling from auctions and closed plants. It's gone.

In the movie The Band of Brothers, one of the G.I.'s yells at the hordes of defeated Nazi's marching into captivity "What were you thinking! Say hello to Ford and General Motors! You are using horses!".

Ford and GM will soon be unable to make a tank or a half track or a jeep.

Soon we will have to reconstitute our industrial base. And when that happens our next generation of leaders will surrender.

It will be easier and simpler.

President B. Hussein Obama will not be able to do anything except announce the end of the American experiment.


28 posted on 02/26/2007 2:50:19 PM PST by Jonathan
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To: panaxanax

Duncan Hunter would make an excellent President.

But he will never be nominated.

Our people will demand more "bread and circuses".

President Obama is going to be the instrument of God's judgment on America.


29 posted on 02/26/2007 2:52:23 PM PST by Jonathan
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To: Jonathan

Well, if that's the case, look at the bright side of Chinese domination: Chinese women.


30 posted on 02/26/2007 3:03:18 PM PST by Vicomte13 (Et alors?)
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To: khnyny

You will find some highly capable people in the civil service. Some of the very best. Not all, of course, some are only slightly above average. The most highly capable people in the civil service operate on a level the political analysts and barbershop politicians have no idea exists.


31 posted on 02/26/2007 3:03:51 PM PST by RightWhale (300 miles north of Big Wild Life)
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To: Jonathan; panaxanax; Vicomte13; StoneWall Brigade
Here's a link to an article interviewing Michael Pillsbury who is an eminent authority on China and Pentagon advisor.

taiwandc

excerpt:

Michael Pillsbury, influential Pentagon adviser and former China lover, believes most Americans have China all wrong. They think of the place as an inherently gentle country intent on economic prosperity.

In that camp he lumps the lower ranks of the State Department, the Central Intelligence Agency, most U.S. investors and the majority of American China scholars, whom he chides as "panda huggers." Mr. Pillsbury says his mission is to assure that the Defense Department doesn't fall into the same trap. "Beijing sees the U.S. as an inevitable foe, and is planning accordingly," warns the 60-year-old China expert. "We'd be remiss not to take that into account."

Mr. Pillsbury's 35-year China odyssey, from fondness to suspicion, parallels Washington's own hot and cold relations with Beijing -- from the diplomatic warming of the 1970s, through the shock and disillusionment of the post-Tiananmen Square era, to today's growing economic and political tensions. That's hardly a coincidence: Whether in public or in the policy-making shadows, Mr. Pillsbury has been a persistent force in shaping official American perceptions of a nation increasingly seen as the world's fastest-rising power.

Washington these days is a welter of emotions on China, many of them heightened by the recent furor over Cnooc Ltd.'s failed bid to buy American oil company Unocal Corp. President Bush came to office calling China a "strategic competitor." He now calls relations with China "good" but "complex." Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice has lately taken a dimmer view of China than her predecessor, Colin Powell, saying it remains unclear whether China will play a positive role in the world.

Thanks in part to Mr. Pillsbury's nudging, the Pentagon has staked out a particularly wary view of Beijing's global intentions. "We must start with the acknowledgement, at least, that we are unprepared to understand Chinese thinking," Mr. Pillsbury says. "And then we must acknowledge that we are facing in China what may become the largest challenge in our nation's history."
32 posted on 02/26/2007 3:07:37 PM PST by khnyny
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To: veracious

"Right Johnny, the heroin junkie is the powerful one?"

The heroin junkie in this case is easily described as China, which is addicted to U.S. markets, U.S. dollars. The deficit with the U.S. accounts -- just the deficit -- for the equivalent of China's annual GDP growth. China must, absolutely, without a shadow of a doubt, have U.S money. The reverse is _not_ true of the U.S. If China stopped buying U.S. debt, the U.S. would have to pay more to borrow and/or stop borrowing as much. The U.S. would face a recession, which it would come out of in a comparatively short amount of time, though it could be a sharp one. The ramifications for China, on the other hand, would be long-term and absolutely massive.

There is absolutely no question about who is at the relative mercy of who in this equation, and the fact that people are told the exact _opposite_ and told so _constantly_ is a testament to the ignorance-peddling nature of the media, not just in the U.S. but around the globe.


"America is so broke that it must beg for another monetary fix from anyone and everyone"

No.


"Some of us are either over educated or not very intelligent to buy this scam."

I have a graduate degree in economics. What's your background?


33 posted on 02/26/2007 3:08:28 PM PST by Sandreckoner
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To: khnyny

"We must start with the acknowledgement, at least, that we are unprepared to understand Chinese thinking," Mr. Pillsbury says.

And he's absolutely correct. However, what he's saying, and acknowledging that China is a serious threat, is light years away from the sort of threat people like some here are portraying. It's silly to set up scarecrows. Deal with reality.


34 posted on 02/26/2007 3:22:13 PM PST by Sandreckoner
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To: khnyny

China is dangerous. i do not see how true conservatives can deal with china. china is communist thats not a Republican value. china forces abortions, hardly part of the GOP platform, china has socilized health care (RINO's love that)

we should be doing everything to keep china down. as we build up china with our technology, we are creating a communist monster that is anti everything the GOP stands for.

not only that, chinas leaders are cruel, inhumman power hungery fanatics (you got to be fanatical if you kill off 30 million of your own) they are building a big military to threaten us. They have been the ones supporting kim chi bad hair doo (N. korean leader) allowing him to make nukes, and launch rockets. if there was no china, there would be only one korea, and it would be free.

china is costing the tax payer of the USA billions to keep up with there military expansion,a nd deal with problems like N. korea. Recall china fought us in the korean war, and no peace treaty was ever made, so technically I guess we are still at war with n. korea AND china

Opening up china was Nixon's big mistake. never, ever, ever trust a communist china is communist, and we should shun them, and prepare to fight them. worse than Nixon's mistake was clintons sell out of our technology.

the technology has given us an edge in military, and economics, and now we have given it way to a nation that would otherwise never be able to reeach that level of technology because it brutal communistic government


35 posted on 02/26/2007 3:27:36 PM PST by antirinoman
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To: Sandreckoner
That's why I posted the link - it does deal with reality.

I think you should read the entire article, if you haven't already, but imho, the reality is bad enough.
36 posted on 02/26/2007 3:30:15 PM PST by khnyny
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To: antirinoman
china is communist

China is possibly still under central control to a degree. While we like to say Red China and ChiCom, such appellations are not particularly useful nor correct. We will probably find, if we actually look at China in its historical context that the Mandarin system is still very strong and the values are Confucian.

37 posted on 02/26/2007 3:33:19 PM PST by RightWhale (300 miles north of Big Wild Life)
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To: Jeff Head

BTTT


38 posted on 02/26/2007 3:39:01 PM PST by Chena
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To: khnyny
Trade with China has been good for the US, China and the rest of the world. The quickest way to stamp out global poverty is through global trade.

Trade with China has not hurt the US economy at all (look around you and all the massive construction that is still taking place across America). Here in the Seattle area, construction cranes dot the skyline.

What trade does do (and the debt the US has with China), it allows China access to technology. An intangible that does not take anything away from the US. And it is the acquired technology (whether in science, manufacturing or financial), that will help alleviate global proverty (including poverty in China).

39 posted on 02/26/2007 3:45:22 PM PST by ponder life
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To: JmyBryan
"I get so tired of everyone using the word addicted for meaning used to or expecting."

Tell me about it. I wish George Will had never lifted the now much abused "Oxymoron" to popular lexicon.
40 posted on 02/26/2007 3:53:53 PM PST by Jacquerie (Democrats and Islamists, butt buddies in jihad against these United States.)
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