Posted on 02/26/2007 9:33:54 AM PST by lifelong_republican
Read through this, and let me know if you have any rebuttals to the points made: Schneier on Security: The Problem with Electronic Voting Machines.
Bruce Schneier isn't a tin-foiler, though he is paid to be paranoid to a certain degree.
You are exactly right that the paper trail is pointless.
What's needed is for voters to create their own tangible ballots for themselves, and for them to observe the counting.
He may be. I was getting that impression reading to his previous posts. And the name is a little suspect too. Trying too hard to indicate his credentials. Then again, he could be exactly what/who he claims to be. Or maybe not.
But, with that said, I wholeheartedly support a paper ballot from the electronic voting machines. I do not support it being a receipt that the voter takes with them.
Cast your votes on the e-voting machine. Confirm the vote. Print the ballot. Confirm the ballot. Drop the ballot in the ballot box, just like was done with punch cards. At the end of the day, count the paper ballots, and compare to the electronic tallies. Instant backup counts, and a quick indicator of any e-fraud, plus a paper trail for a more verifiable recount.
Thank you so much for posting that link.
Even the paper trail is worse than useless because it need not reflect the actual votes and can't be recounted via independent means.
What I'd be or not is totally irrelevant to honest discussion (there aren't many of us Goldwater vote, or true conservatives, online).
The 'paper trail' doesn't work because it may not match the voters' intentions and it won't/can't be checked independently.
The electronics aren't sufficiently reliable and they're a waste of taxpayer money. They fail too often and when they fail they prevent voters from casting their votes as intended.
I agree. I said it when he first began posting.
"Cast your votes on the e-voting machine. Confirm the vote. Print the ballot. Confirm the ballot. Drop the ballot in the ballot box, just like was done with punch cards. At the end of the day, count the paper ballots, and compare to the electronic tallies. Instant backup counts, and a quick indicator of any e-fraud, plus a paper trail for a more verifiable recount."
With the addition that nobody is forced to use the electronics, and everyone given the option of creating the ballots personally (it's faster, cheaper, and more efficient), and the final tallies are scrutinized hand counts of the tangible ballots, that would be best and I totally agree with what you wrote.
Do you believe that the Republican Representative who introduced this legislation would be in error for having done so? Can you produce any facts to support that, if you reject this Republcan's efforts?
(I'd hate to interrupt your old-fishwifely gossip and fallacy fest, here, but the subject isn't me.)
The subject is the known unreliability and vulnerability of forcing people to use computers made in secrecy in China and run by corrupt Democrats instead of letting them create confirm and count their own real ballots. Why are you so desperate to let others whom you can't even identify do your voting for you?
"But, with that said, I wholeheartedly support a paper ballot from the electronic voting machines. I do not support it being a receipt that the voter takes with them."
As do I. That's why I have a problem with these posts. The last 2 times I voted, I did so electronically and was shown, not given, a secure paper reciept of my vote after I chose "finish". And that's in Mississippi.
IMO, this is a non-issue being pushed by liberals and their election stealing ilk. The fact that this non-issue is this posters's ONLY issue, I have no doubt he's one of FR's many newer stealth trolls.
So, I'm supposed to be in favor of a method of voting that will make the voter fraud problem WORSE, because of a non-voting machine fraud??? That is one of the stupidest things I've yet heard on this discussion board (and I've heard some really stupid ones).
The subject of my post WAS you
That would depend upon how they were done. It is trivial to print a ballot that is both machine and human readable for voter verification.
You might want to check out some of the other stuff Mr. Schneier has written about electronic ballot (and other) issues. The Crypto-gram is required reading for me.
Well, I just gave you direct evidence of fraud through ballots, yet you have given no evidence in return for your point? Who is stupid now? Well, you I guess you deserve the Gregiore goverment you did'nt vote for.
Does Pierce County still ''re-mark" vote-by-mail ballots?
A Republican Governor and a Republican State Representative are dealing with the known problem, albeit partially, of the electronic 'voting' systems.
Many Republican voters saw their votes for Rick Santorum in the last election switched to his opponent.
I hope you will be able to transcend your "us vs. them" limitations and do some research on this topic.
Your misdirection to the messenger is fallacious.
This is about your vote, too.
You should want to handle it for yourself.
You're right about the dependence on implementation/operation.
Elections shouldn't depend on whether the right people are conducting them or whether they are doing the job correctly.
The best systems are designed to be failsafe even under the most adverse anticipated conditions.
Look, dork---the problem in King County had nothing whatsoever to do with the mechanics of vote casting. It had to do with corruption (or gross incompetence) in the registrar of voters office. NO process is immune to that. And the all-electronic voting will NOT help that problem.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.