Posted on 02/26/2007 7:38:11 AM PST by cougar_mccxxi
This movie is moving around the country. They are sometimes having discussions after it. I think that anyone who thinks they know what happened at Waco has another thing coming.
(Excerpt) Read more at waco93.com ...
One way to keep track of attitudes is to keep track of used rifle prices, especially in the standard military calibers, 30-06, .303, .223, 7.62-M!, 7.62x39 or X57, etc. Hereabouts, at least, those prices are rising again and also the prices of cases of ammo, kind of like between Waco and November '94.
One thing that was finally admitted by the government is that there were NO automatic firearms found and later that none were really suspected.
Even more, though, these events galvanized the 'militia movement' and all the incidents, Waco most of all, were a wake-up call to people nationwide, indicating Federal Agencies where power had run amok.
It also illustrated to any who questioned what had happened in any of the instances just how corrupt and dangerous the Clintons were: that power could be abused here as readily as in any dictatorship, current or historical, at least on a smaller scale.
Such abuses of power were a hallmark of the Clinton Administration, and are the reason we need to guard closely against a POTUS, from any party, who has a penchant for being autocratic in domestic affairs and being contemptuous of the Constitution.
This really gets difficult when we want someone who is going to prosecute the war on terror, because we start to deal with gray areas between law enforcement and antiterrorist activity.
Sure, there were those who bought the MSM promoted official line hook, line, and sinker.
There were (and continue to be) people who will not and do not want to comprehend the abuse of power there because they cannot/will not handle it. They get glassy eyed and tune it out.
There were the 'true believers' who decided this was a 'good thing' to get rid of those 'evil people' without any thought to what supposed evils deserved this sort of treatment.
And then there were those, roundly demonized by the press, who organized for the purpose of mutual defense against any criminal actions taken against them.
If anything, this illustrates that the label of "domestic terrorist" is just a breath away from being used to define any group the press can and does routinely demonize, including Christians, gunowners, and people who dissent with the policies of 'diversity', to name a few.
We live in dangerous times for the Republic even yet, and perhaps more so than then because of the precedents which can be established sacrificing our rights on the altars of expediency and security.
My brother-in-law was a State ATF honcho when that went down and he was a very scary man for awhile. He worked himself up to believe that it was time to massacre all those damned nonconformists and to Deal With anyone who owned guns and wasn't a certified Hunter. If he had lived in the same town as I, I would have found another town to inhabit. He has been retired for the last few years and has mellowed a bit but I am still uncomfortable around him.
I believe he is living peacefully in Virginia between hits.
8mm if I get to be his judge, or 9.
Sorting out the facts, events, and the people involved is not immoral. Stating Lon is headed for hell is immoral. Never turn a blind eye to discovery. Too many have their heads in the sand.
Life had me by the tail ... distracting in the main.
I'm open to discovery. Actually I would like to hear more mitigating circumstances of his actions at Ruby Ridge. I have not, yet. Perhaps I am wrong with my impressions, and maybe he regretted his actions. Maybe after Ruby Ridge and Waco, he changed.
I realize that no man can judge a person's fate on his death, actually, have to consider he may turn at the last moment. It is part of my faith to pray for a person's salvation regardless, although realistically it may be remote. So I am fine with stating a person is heading for hell, by his actions on earth, because there is still time for his salvation, but am not fine with saying a person is in hell. That is for God to know, not for man.
129 posted on 02/27/2007 6:30:11 AM MST by arthurus
Ms Bill has put out the word that
she will not be swift-boated,
but I agree with you, she could be "WACOed"
150 posted on 02/27/2007 8:30:15 AM MST by Beckwith
Wesley Clark the "Butcher of Waco"
Googling "clinton bodyguard killed waco" as search terms will get you many pages of hits. If you want an AP / Reuters / Washington Post source, I am not sure where to look.
You missed the part where I said nothing excuses what was done at WACO. If the Government moved in because of concerns of a mass murder/ suicide that does not justify the method they used. But I do not think and never said these concerns were valid.
For one thing there is really nothing that supports the idea that the Branch Davidians were considering mass murder/suicide. At Jonestown Jim Jones ran suicide drills and binded his followers to him using standard brainwashing techniques. After Congressman Ryan was killed Jones told his follwers that the Guyanese army and American CIA operatives were going to invade the encampment and kill all the children.
Nothing I have read about Branch Davidians mentions suicide drills. Yes Branch Davidian was a cult and Koresh was its leader. But many believe that David Koresh was willing to end the seige when he finished his Seven Seals prophecy and gave them to the world.
The apologetics index includes links to the CATO report on the government operation. Which it condemns. The report can be found at http://www.apologeticsindex.org/b10a03.html#cato
I did not mean to give the impression I endorsed the gov't raid on WACO. I was trying to say what might have motivated them to ok the raid. But even with the most understandable of motives the means were and remain inexcusable.
The Government was wrong, wrong, wrong. Oh did I mention they were wrong?
You should find this excerpt from a Reason magazine interesting: Reading Elian
The camera doesn't lie. But it will confess to just about anything.
http://www.reason.com/news/show/27764.html
" A number of weapons and security experts have taken public issue with Reno’s characterization of the raid imagery, and what it reveals about the handling of the gun. Among them is Stephen Hunter, a member of The Washington Post Style staff. Hunter is the author of a series of successful novels in which guns play a major role, and he is highly regarded for his technical expertise. ("Hunter must have been a gun in a former life" is a typical sample of the praise he has elicited from his gun-culture readers.) Here’s what he wrote in the Post about the safety issues raised by the image.
"What struck me most about the photograph isn’t the gun itself, but the way in which it’s held. It’s very close to being out of control. These are not one-handed weapons, and except for emergency circumstances, they are not even two-handed weapons. They recoil so persuasively they must be secured at three points: They must be moored against the shoulder or the center of the chest; the firing hand grips the pistol grip and controls the trigger; and, finally, the other hand must secure the muzzle via the foregrip or a front vertical grip. The officer doesn’t even have the weapon secured against his shoulder, as police are taught to do." Although the INS claims that the gun’s safety is on, Hunter states categorically, "It is also true from the photograph that the safety is off."
"Hunter’s reading of the dangers of the raid was supported by a number of security experts."
The rest of the article can be found at the above posted link.
Its even worse than that, the stock of the rifle is not even on his shoulder. Oh I see he mentions that.
The weapon would have been all over the place like that.
Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.