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To: George W. Bush
There is no Catholic doctrine or dogma that Mary or anyone else is co-Redemptorix with Jesus Christ. If one were to say that by her acceptance of her virgin motherhood of Jesus in response to the message of the archangel Gabriel (The Annunciation), that Mary willingly cooperated with God's plan by saying "Let it be done unto me according to Thy word", that would be accurate. Mary, however, did not personally redeem mankind nor could she. Unlike Jesus Christ, she had only a human nature. Only His sacrifice, not hers, could redeem mankind.

I am a great partisan of John Paul II but, to the extent that he may have ever said anything that reasonably led you to believe otherwise, he certainly defined no doctrine or dogma to that effect. There are some "ultras" among Catholics who want to believe that Mary is co-Redemptorix. They have been quite disappointed to date and are quite likely to remain so.

Also, papal infallibility was formally proclaimed by the First Vatican Council during the 1850s in the pontificate of Pope Pius IX. Papal infallibility had long been an undefined tradition of the Roman Catholic Church, the original Christian Church. There was no Calvinist anything before God created Calvin, nor any reformation before God created Luther, nor any Baptist Church before it was created in reformation times. Non-Catholic Christians existed from early times to our own. Donatists, Nestorians, Pelagians, Arians, Albigensians, and many more such groups existed within Christianity but outside of Roman Catholicism long before there was a reformation, long before there were Baptists, Anabaptists, Lutherans, Methodists, Anglicans, and what not.

A great thing about America is that I may hold my Roman Catholic beliefs alongside of you holding your Calvinist Baptist beliefs alongside others who are Lutheran or Methodist or Jehovah's Witnesses or Jews or Mormons or agnostics or atheists. We all live here and we are all protected by First Amendment freedom of worship and freedom from establishment.

Like all Catholics who believe as Catholics must believe, I believe that Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone is my personal Lord and Savior. I suspect that you share that belief. Someday, I dare to hope to meet you personally in heaven.

204 posted on 02/25/2007 9:33:18 PM PST by BlackElk (Dean of Discipline of the Tomas de Torquemada Gentlemen's Club)
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To: BlackElk
Mary, however, did not personally redeem mankind nor could she. Unlike Jesus Christ, she had only a human nature. Only His sacrifice, not hers, could redeem mankind.

Always good to hear it affirmed. Christ alone is savior.

There are some "ultras" among Catholics who want to believe that Mary is co-Redemptorix. They have been quite disappointed to date and are quite likely to remain so.

It seems so strange to me to petition the pope on the matter. It seems they must have thought he didn't understand doctrine properly or something, like he didn't know something essential to the faith. This kind of politicking is even stranger in a church that is so hierarchical. Still, the RC have many traditions and a certain church culture that is a mystery to me.

Also, papal infallibility was formally proclaimed by the First Vatican Council during the 1850s in the pontificate of Pope Pius IX. Papal infallibility had long been an undefined tradition of the Roman Catholic Church, the original Christian Church.

Actually, this was another rather political move, IMO. But I will avoid another dispute on an archeology thread.

There was no Calvinist anything before God created Calvin, nor any reformation before God created Luther, nor any Baptist Church before it was created in reformation times.

Calvin and Luther readily acknowledged that they followed the teachings of Augustine on the sovereignty of God. As you must know, the Jansenists also derived their beliefs from Augustine. Some of the types of other Christians you named are considered heretics by the RC and Protestants and the modern cults that teach those doctrines are also heretical. The Arians are the best known in your list and it is a heresy that thrives in modern times.

Like all Catholics who believe as Catholics must believe, I believe that Jesus Christ and Jesus Christ alone is my personal Lord and Savior. I suspect that you share that belief. Someday, I dare to hope to meet you personally in heaven.

It is, to me, unimaginable to think of Christianity in any other way. Hence, my reactions to even the slightest hint that anyone but Christ alone is our Savior. He is sufficient as the perfect sacrifice acceptable to God for our sin, sufficient to sanctify our prayers to the Father that He can hear them and forgive them, sufficient as our Advocate with the Father, sufficient to be the Shepherd of the flock His Father grants him.
207 posted on 02/25/2007 9:56:53 PM PST by George W. Bush
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