Replies

Put another way: If his word isn't enough to "prove" his change, why is it enough to prove his homosexuality?

As I have already said, because there are no other forces pushing the person toward the latter.

This is what passes for logic in your mind? Have you ever had formal logic training?

The problem is that I was not utilizing formal logic, but informal logic.

Now, even beyond presuming to assign a motive to an unknown person in his most personal of choices and behaviors, you'll go the further step to presume to know what the motives of "most of these 'conversion therapies'" are!

I do know. They're almost exclusively Christian, usually fundamentalist.

The rest of your post is one big ad hominem (a mild version of which sparked your outrage), probably showing something about yourself. I hate to say it, but you argue like a liberal.

As I have already said, because there are no other forces pushing the person toward the latter.

And you know this, how? ...exactly?

The problem is that I was not utilizing formal logic, but informal logic.

Umm... There's no such thing. There's logic and there's illogic. What you call "informal logic" is a collection of unsubstantiated generalizations and personal assertions.

That's not logic, informal or otherwise.

I do know. They're almost exclusively Christian, usually fundamentalist.

Wow. Would you kindly point me to your exhaustive study or survey by which you came to this conclusion? Only by talking to all of them could you reasonably conclude that "They're almost exclusively Christian." You must have spent a number of years interviewing reformed homosexuals. I'd love to read up on your research.

...or are you making assumptions again?

The rest of your post is one big ad hominem (a mild version of which sparked your outrage), probably showing something about yourself. I hate to say it, but you argue like a liberal.

No, not really. I don't know you personally. You may be a reasonably nice guy, for all I know. I'm simply pointing out the gaping holes in your reasoning. I honestly hope to persuade you to think about the subject more thoroughly, since you clearly haven't done so.

I happen to believe those who say they've overcome their homosexuality and changed. My reason for believing that is that I have personally witnessed similar, to-the-core changes in the character and personality of people I personally know. I don't question their motives, nor does it even matter. I have witnessed it with my own eyes and ears, and it's very much real.

I know a man who has changed from a chain-smoking, belligerant, MEAN jerk into a kind, wise, caring and happy person who is a pleasure to be around. I have watched filthy, stoned, single-minded addicts become intelligent, hard-working, responsible people. There are too many examples of such changes in my memory to ever list, or to ever deny.

So, when a man with nothing to sell me is telling me he has overcome his homosexuality, I tend to believe him. At the very least, I know it's possible.

As I have already said, because there are no other forces pushing the person toward the latter.

That would depend on your definition of force. Children in government schools are forced to learn homosexuality is normal. And what some school officials tell us, there's nothing we can do about it.

The facts are there is no gay gene and no credible science claims a gay gene exists. No credible scientist claims gays are born that way. As TChris has already told you, the only evidence somebody has to prove they're gay is their word, which is the exact same evidence an ex-gay has.

Children are encouraged to try homosexuality. Some previous questionaires have asked children if they haven't tried homosexuality, how do they know they wouldn't like it.

The following links provide plenty of evidence of the gay agenda targeting children:

Targeting Children, Part 1: How the gay movement intends to capture the next generation
Targeting Children, Part 2: How the homosexual movement uses public schools as instruments of change
Targeting Children, Part 3: Activists encouraging experimentation
Targeting Children, Part 4: Access to children: homosexuality and molestation

I highly recommend you read this: How Might Homosexuality Develop? Putting the Pieces Together. The good news is the APA Has No Disagreement With the Treatment of Unwanted Homosexual Attraction.