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Well I do have an ex homosexual in my family so I do know a little more than the average joe.

Personal experience is not an adequate substitute for scientific knowledge.

Now if you are born that way, you cant change it, no more than i could change the color of my skin.

The problem is that you can't look inside a person's head. You can't see whether the person's attractions have changed or not, you can only observe the person's behavior. And behavior is tricky, you could probably live with a man and pass off as gay, even though you are still attracted to women.

Pedophiles claim they are attracted to children. you can give them drugs, punish them with jail time, castorate them etc and STILL they offend. do we want to say they are born that way too? that they cant help it?

I'm not sure if they can help it. But I don't believe in the naturalistic fallacy, that everything that is inborn is necessarily good. People sometimes have violent tendencies that they get genetically. That's why we need to lock pedophiles up for the rest of their lives, tattoo it on their forehead and put them between more respectable criminals like murderes and robbers. I'm sure they will be taken care of.

Granted what gays do in the privacy of thier bedrooms isnt comparable to molesting children, but you cannot take one and say its normal and not the other-the argument will be (and is) the same.

Your conclusion does not follow from your argument. Pedophilia is, essentially, rape. Now can you compare rape to consensual intercourse, even between two people of the same sex?

I for one dont care what ppl do in thier bedrooms. but DO NOT bring it into my schools etc and tell me they are born that way and therefore should be considered normal.

I agree with you on that, schools should be focused on teaching children.

Well Its obvious I wont change your mind.

I can tell you that I am very close to this family member and I can tell you that its not simply "behavior modification".

I wish I could remember the poster several years ago on FR (if someone remembers thatd be great) who was a heterosexual and had a homosexual experience on a business trip.

He said the experience was so mind blowing it became like a drug. I can tell you that the program my family member went thru treats homosexuality, in part, as an addiction.

Ive seen more evidence of that, then that they are born that way.

I did NOT say they were comparable.

like i said READ. psychologist are already arguing the exact SAME arguement for pedophiles.

Yes they are different. no comparison at all. again its the ARGUMENT that is the same.

dont take issue with me, take it up with the so called professionals that believe a child can concent and therefore it is not rape. that it is society that creates the harm to the child by saying its bad.

You do know at one point that being homosexual was considered a disorder, just like pediophilea. just because more and more folks came out as being gay, doesnt mean we should normalize it.

like i said slippery slope!

Personal experience is not an adequate substitute for scientific knowledge.

The problem is that you can't look inside a person's head.

Funny how your two statements contradict each other. You can't do it scientifically (look into someone's head) but scientifically is the answer.

The newly approved curriculum, entitled "Respect for Differences in Human Sexuality," promotes cross-dressers, homosexuals, transgenders, bisexuals, the intersexed, and other non-heterosexuals. It teaches children about “coming out” as gay, “gender identity” for men who think they’re women and vice-versa, and “homophobia” as a label for anyone who disagrees.

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If all K-12 schooling in this nation were privately funded and privately delivered, there would be no bitter controversy. Parents, teachers, and principals would privately decide how to introduce sexuality to the school's students.

Teaching children about sexuality has profoundly religious consequences and content. It is impossible to separate religion from human sexuality.

Therefore,,,,, when the government owns and runs schools, the government will establish (and stamp with its imprimatur) the religious worldview of some, and then actively work to destroy the religious beliefs of others.

Government schools are an abomination! The violate freedom of conscience, and our human rights as outlined in the First Amendment.

What is this scientific knowledge of which you speak?

It is always intriguing to hear it pronounced as proven that homosexuals are "born that way." But there does not seem to be much actual evidence; it seems to be more of a perverted faith based on one single very dubious study done by homosexuals which has not been duplicated. Why is "faith" in the ineluctable nature of perversion better than faith in the Word?

Since you are inclined to dismiss programs that are geared toward altering sexual orientation because of their religious affiliations, I suggest that you visit your local library and spend some time researching articles from scientific journals that are say, 40 or 50 years old on the subject. What you'll find is that, before homosexuality became politicized and was being considered objectively, the same types of therapies used by these "religious" groups were being utilized decades ago in a wholly secular manner, with very comparable results.

The reason the therapies are now found largely within the context of "religious" institutions is because, from their sense of moral obligation to attempt to bring people to wholeness, such organizations are the only ones still willing to regard homosexuality as a dysfunction, unlike the professional psychological organizations that were long ago bullied into silence and submission by the political activists.