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To: Boxen; WestVirginiaRebel; Sopater; Coyoteman; Blue_Ridge_Mtn_Geek; rickdylan; ExtremeUnction; ...
My friend Stan Tenen, someone who definitely believes in one God, has made the best argument against "Intelligent Design" on the basis that ID is anti-one-God. INTELLIGENT DESIGN -- INTELLIGENCE vs. INFORMATION

Here is a little bit of his argument:

Intelligent Design claims that cellular structures cannot have evolved, because they are too complex, and require simultaneous mutations.

This claim is specious. There are two fundamental problems. First, it's bad science; and second, if the logic presented is followed through on, it inevitably leads to a compound god (incompatible with the Unique God of the Ten Commandments). Opponents of Intelligent Design claim it is a stand-in for either "creationism" or "alien" design.

With regard to the appearance of impossible simultaneous coordinated developments -- sadly, the cell biologists and bio-chemists have not kept up with developments in physics and math. Only a few years ago, mathematicians thought it was impossible to produce Penrose tilings, because they required simultaneous coordinated developments. It was thought that there was no possible way for different parts of a developing crystal, for example, to coordinate with other parts, so that the overall structure would be complete without fissures, defects, and faults.

As it turned out, even after the mathematicians had cautioned that these patterns could not occur in nature, they were discovered in nature. And no "intelligent designer" was required. The Penrose tilings are naturally adjacent in a higher dimension -- which is apparently where they organize. So the impossible became possible.



. . . some good stuff left out ...



In Jewish tradition, Hashem/Elokim ("Lord God") is undifferentiated and utterly Singular. This is the proclamation of the Sh'ma: "Hear, O Israel, Hashem is our God, Hashem is One". (Hashem="The Name"=Lord; Elokim=Elo-him="God"). This ideal "Echad" ("One"; singular, unique Unity) tolerates no differentiation ("a jealous God"), and no qualities knowable to us (beyond Singular All-Inclusiveness).

In Torah tradition, the information gradient that leads the natural world to the evolution of life (and us) derives directly from the fact that Hashem/Elokim is undifferentiated. If there were any differentiation, then the negentropic information gradient would be degraded, and we wouldn't have "All-there Is". There would be gaps in reality, and gaps in nature. It is only because Hashem/Elokim is utterly Singular and Unique that the universe can contain the full span of diversity. (What I mean by this is that there is a complementary transform relationship between the singularity and the spectrum.**)

Intelligent Design requires god to apply a structured logic to the world, in order to force evolution. This structured logic, which is claimed to lead to the logic of DNA, must come from a structured logic. Logic has components, or it's either trivial or not logical. The proponents of Intelligent Design are thus attempting to walk us down a garden path to an embodied (compound) god.

God is the source of information -- and this information*** is the fuel of intelligence.

Bible tradition -- monotheism -- requires a Singular and unembodied (non-compound) God.

I think it's important to discuss the implications of Intelligent Design, because Intelligent Design is now being promoted by the President of the United States. Science classrooms all over the country are being assaulted with what amounts to a teaching that claims that one belief system is scientifically true, and the public -- almost all non-scientists -- is buying it.

This is an assault on science, which means it's also an assault on the future of our society -- and on the true roots of our traditions of faith. The fact is, when all is said and done, Intelligent Design "damns by faint praise."

(c) 2005 Stan Tenen

------------------------

My take is that the world is much weirder than anyone can imagine, but it is our job to try and figure it out.
27 posted on 02/22/2007 7:14:02 PM PST by SubMareener (Become a monthly donor! Free FreeRepublic.com from Quarterly FReepathons!)
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To: SubMareener

One could argue that a divinity could not spontaneously appear, but had to be designed/imagined by humans, and not too intelligently at it.


30 posted on 02/22/2007 7:20:28 PM PST by GSlob
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To: SubMareener

An evolutionist is somebody who could open the hoods to TWO cars, a Ford and a Chevy, and figure the engines in BOTH of them just kind of drifted together. The question of who or how many people or what kinds of people it takes to make Ford or Chevy engines is pretty irrelevant, neither one of them just happens.


32 posted on 02/22/2007 7:23:33 PM PST by rickdylan
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To: SubMareener
In Jewish tradition, Hashem/Elokim ("Lord God") is undifferentiated and utterly Singular... This ideal "Echad" ("One"; singular, unique Unity) tolerates no differentiation ("a jealous God"), and no qualities knowable to us (beyond Singular All-Inclusiveness).

The theology is flawed even upon a cursory examination. God is one AND also has distinct parts. For example, the scriptures refer to His hand. It does not matter that this is metaphorical. If the Unity claim in your friend's argument where true, even metaphorical references to God's parts would be building idols in the mind.

Ezekiel 14:13 Son of man, these men have set up their idols in their heart, and put the stumblingblock of their iniquity before their face: should I be inquired of at all by them?

Joshua 4:24 That all the people of the earth might know the hand of the LORD, that it is mighty: that you might fear the LORD your God forever.


Intelligent Design requires god to apply a structured logic to the world, in order to force evolution.

It does not require that God's "logic" be limited to our comprehension of it. His "logic" can and must be superior to our logic.

Proverbs 3:19 The LORD by wisdom hath founded the earth; by understanding hath he established the heavens.

Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD.
[9] For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts than your thoughts.


no qualities knowable to us [other than sinularity] ???

What about the many titles of God? His qualities are knowable by the very text which your friend claims to validate his wrong ideas. God is Holy, Pure, Faithful, Gentle, Kind, Strong, Patient, and on and on. It seems your friend is hiding from God behind a veneer of religious speculation.
56 posted on 02/22/2007 8:19:57 PM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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