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Assault or hunting rifles? You decide (a Zumbo clone spouts off)
Lake County News-Sun ^ | February 22, 2007 | News-Sun

Posted on 02/22/2007 5:37:12 AM PST by holymoly

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To: Domandred
>The very next Brady Campaign Blog targets SHOTGUNS and .22's!

>The most common killers may surprise you

Well, well:

This blog is set to private. This user must add you as a friend to see his/her blog.

It seems the light of day was too much.

101 posted on 02/22/2007 5:37:18 PM PST by LTCJ
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To: stm
Actually neither the AR-15 nor AK-47 are well suited for hunting, big game at least. They are designed to kill humans not large animals. Their bullets are either too light and slow (or both in the case of the AK) to really bring down a large animal at any distance

You are ballisticly illiterate. The AK round (7.62x39) is equal to the 30.30, a round that takes more deer every year than most any other. The .223 round was designed as a varmit round, not to "kill humans" and was adapted to the Armalite rifle. Since most states don't allow it for deer because it is not powerful enough, why would anyone think it would be good to "kill humans"?

If you are going to hunt deer the .270 (or 7mm) is the smallest round I would use and I prefer the .308 or .30-06<--(especially).

The .270 is not a 7mm projectile but it is roughly the same ballisticly as the 30.06 since it is a necked down .06 case. The .308 is slightly inferior to both for larger game since it is a shorter case and won't handle longer heavy bullets as well.

OK?

102 posted on 02/22/2007 6:59:39 PM PST by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: LTCJ
Well, well:

This blog is set to private. This user must add you as a friend to see his/her blog.

It seems the light of day was too much.

Me thinks so. Earlier today when originally posted the blog was not private

103 posted on 02/22/2007 7:17:10 PM PST by Domandred
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To: MileHi

First off I never said the .270 and 7mm were the same rounds. And the .30-30 is a faster round than the 7.62 x 39mm round and can be found or reloaded in different bullet types besides ball, which is not a particularly good hunting round.

As for 5.56 x 45mm's ability to kill humans, it does just fine and I have punched numerous allah tickets with it, usually requiring only one round. And if you had ever seen the wounds produced by it, which I doubt you have, then you would see your argument is without merit. I neary ripped a guy's arm off (skin was the only thing holding it on) with this "varmint" round at around 100m.

As for the .308's ability to bring down down larger game, I load my .308's with Speer 168 gr HPBT match round bullets and have never once had to shoot an animal more than once to bring it down. Last year I brough down an 8 point 190 pound buck with a single round to the neck from over 500m using my M-14. One shot one kill. The differece between a .308 and a .30-06 is only a little over 200 fps muzzle with 168 gr bullets. And those numbers are taken straight from my Hornady Reloading manual.


104 posted on 02/23/2007 7:15:03 AM PST by stm (Believe 1% of what you hear in the drive-by media and take half of that with a grain of salt)
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To: stm

"If you are going to hunt deer the .270 (or 7mm) is the smallest round I would use and I prefer the .308 or .30-06<--(especially)."

You are welcome to your opinion, but most knowledgable people feel the .243 Winchester, 6 mm. Remington, .25-06, and .257 Roberts are fine deer cartridges. As I posted earlier, the 6.5 mm. Grendel looks like a nice AR-compatible deer cartridge. I hope to find out pretty soon here.

Perhaps you should do some reading. :-)


105 posted on 02/23/2007 9:14:49 AM PST by PreciousLiberty
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To: stm
According to Remington, the 150gr 30-30 and the 125gr 7.62X39 are pretty much even. The 125 softpoint is pointed and more efficient.

http://www.remington.com/products/ammunition/ballistics/comparative_ballistics_results.aspx?data=R30301*R762391

As to the 5.56 x 45mm's performance that you described, I don't dispute that. I love my AR. But the round wasn't designed as a military round. And I am sure you are aware of the ongoing discussion about replacing it do to terminal performance problems.

We agree about the .308, and mine is a very accurate rifle. I do prefer my 30.06 for elk, though.

Thanks for your service.
106 posted on 02/23/2007 10:38:20 AM PST by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: MileHi

The terminal performance concerns about the 5.56 x 45 round stem more from the change in weapon than the round itself. The A2/A3/A4 had a 20" heavy bbl. The switch to the M4 as the standard weapon has reduced the bbl length to 14.5", which reduces not only it's accuracy at long ranges but also it's muzzle velocity. But given the type of environment in which we now fight, the M4 is the right weapon for the job. I hated clearing buildings with my A2 because it was too long. I used to sling it across my back and use my M9. Collapse the stock on an M-4 and it's an ideal weapon for clearing buildings.


107 posted on 02/23/2007 11:04:50 AM PST by stm (Believe 1% of what you hear in the drive-by media and take half of that with a grain of salt)
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To: MileHi
One more thing, the standard US 5.56 round is not the same as a .223 round. It is a lot more powerful and the bullet is the M885 62 gr. "green tip" penetrator round, which has a steel core. It is far more lethal than a standard .223 Remington round.
108 posted on 02/23/2007 11:09:48 AM PST by stm (Believe 1% of what you hear in the drive-by media and take half of that with a grain of salt)
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To: stm
"Collapse the stock on an M-4 and it's an ideal weapon for clearing buildings."

That must be an adrenalin rush. I would think a 12 g autoloader would be well suited for the task. I have lots of those green tips. They penetrate well but the down side is a small wound channel.
109 posted on 02/23/2007 12:30:44 PM PST by MileHi ( "It's coming down to patriots vs the politicians." - ovrtaxt)
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To: stm
Is this what you want?
110 posted on 02/23/2007 12:51:26 PM PST by Redcloak (The 2nd Amendment isn't about sporting goods.)
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To: MileHi

The wound channel is not as small as you think. That bullet tumbles immediately and tears the shit out of everything in it's path.


111 posted on 02/25/2007 4:48:32 PM PST by stm (Believe 1% of what you hear in the drive-by media and take half of that with a grain of salt)
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To: stm
Your comment about the AK round, 7.62X39 as not being big enough or good enough for hunting does not quite stand up to the ballistic facts. Ballistically the 7.62X39 is a twin to the 30-30 Winchester round at 100 yards. It starts out a little slower but catches up on both velocity and energy at about 100 yards. The 30-30 bullet is a flat nose by necessity of the magazine of the rifle that firs it. The Bullets that they use for hunting our of an AR type weapon are pointed bullets and preform better down range. The 30-30 has killed more deer in this country than any other cartridge. The 7.62X39 round with a pointed soft point bullet will work just as well as a 30-30 in any comparable situation.
112 posted on 02/26/2007 10:44:18 AM PST by oldenuff2no
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To: P-40

The Second Amendment clearly states that it is about "...the security of a Free State..." not about fighting the government of that Free State.


113 posted on 02/26/2007 11:17:51 AM PST by justshutupandtakeit (Defeat Hillary's V'assed Left Wing Conspiracy)
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