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Indian Navy poised to open bids for new submarines
Press Trust of India (PTI) ^ | February 16, 2007

Posted on 02/16/2007 9:20:09 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki

Navy to get submarine assembly line

February 16, 2007 18:11 IST

With a view to bolster its undersea fighting capabilities, the Indian Navy is poised to open international bids for acquisition and construction of second range of submarines.

"The request for proposals to acquire and build six new range of submarines would be floated shortly," a senior naval official told PTI.

In contention would be the Russians with their 4th generation Amur class submarines armed with vertically launched KLUB-S Missiles and new generation of German HDW submarines with their Air Independent propulsion systems.

The navy has already firmed up a deal with the French warship builders DCN International for construction of six scorpene submarines at Mazagoan docks in Mumbai.

The first of these hunter-killer submarines are expected to roll out by 2011. Naval officials have ruled out equipping any of the six Scorpene submarines with AIP, but Naval Chief Admiral Sureesh Mehta has said this capability would be a criteria for the new planned acquisition of six more submarines.

However, the navy remains tightlipped about progress of a proposal to acquire two Russian Akula (Bars) class type 971 Nuclear powered submarines, as part of India's nuclear deterrent based on sea, land and air platforms.

"We definitely would want to have nuclear submarines because of their long undersea endurance, the decision has to be political," naval officials said.

Naval and DRDO scientists have been working on an indigenous nuclear submarines for years, but are cautious to go public on the project labelled Advance Technology Vehicle.

According to sources, India may go in for first sea trials of the submarines by 2009.

Indian and Russian dockyards have been in negotiation for over three years on the acquisition of the Amur class submarines, which are described as successors to the Indian Navy's Kilo class submarines.

Amur's displacement is smaller than Kilo, but its capabilities are stated to be far superior. The Russians have offered to incorporate Rubin-Designed fuell cell AIP in their offer of technology transfer to India. Amur has a displacement of 2000 ton and can attain maximum speed of 21 knots when submerged and 10 knots when surfaced, with a crew of 30 to 34 personnel and an endurance of 45 days.

The Russians had designed the new AIP system to be retrofitted to the Indian Navy Sindhughosh class submarines, some of which are currently being upgraded at St Petersburg. However, the navy opted to go in for vertically launched Klub-S missiles instead. The Amur class submarines also sport anti-ship missiles such as SS-N-15 or the SS-N-16 Misslies and a variety of mines and torpedoes.

The Russians had designed the new generation Amur class submarines for joint induction into the Indian and Russian navies and the subs are expected to cost significantly less than the Kilo class.

However, the Americans could be late entrants for Indian submarine deal and by the time the RFP's are issued in late march or early April, they could also be in the hunt for the Indian deal.

On other acquisition prospects, Naval officials said evaluation was currently underway for inducting eight Maritime Reconnaissance Aircraft. "Bids from Boeing and Airbus for the long range spy planes and from Lockheed-Martin offering the P3C Orions and Russian IL-38D for the short range requirment are under study," an official said.

Navy is also planning to buy 16 helicopters with the option of another eight to replace its ageing Seaking Mk 42s and Seaking Mk42s fleet, which are fast approaching the end of their service life. They said Navy was also acquiring Naval versions of the Hawk jet trainers.


TOPICS: Foreign Affairs; Germany; News/Current Events; Russia
KEYWORDS: armsbuildup; dieselelectric; germany; hdw; india; russia; russiangarbage; ssk; submarines
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1 posted on 02/16/2007 9:20:12 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: sukhoi-30mki

India has seen the writing on the wall, and prefers to walk softly and carry a big stick... rather than the Euro/liberal approach to potential adversaries: appeasement.


2 posted on 02/16/2007 9:29:55 AM PST by snowrip (Liberal? YOU HAVE NO RATIONAL ARGUMENT. Actually, you lack even a legitimate excuse.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Gotta give the P3s we sold Pakistan, something to look for...


3 posted on 02/16/2007 9:31:01 AM PST by stuartcr (Everything happens as God wants it to.....otherwise, things would be different.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

We got SSN 688s on the decom list. It would sure save money if we sold them rather than deactivating them.


4 posted on 02/16/2007 9:37:42 AM PST by Thrownatbirth (.....when the sidewalks are safe for the little guy.re)
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To: sukhoi-30mki; snowrip
However, the Americans could be late entrants for Indian submarine deal and by the time the RFP's are issued in late march or early April, they could also be in the hunt for the Indian deal.

snowrip, I was wondering what the U.S. would have to offer, but then I saw your comment on the 688s.

sukhoi-30mki, have you heard if that is what is being offered to the Indian Navy?

5 posted on 02/16/2007 9:58:23 AM PST by Sergio (If a tree fell on a mime in the forest, would he make a sound?)
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To: Thrownatbirth

Can you imagine how bad the inside of an Indian Submarine would smell? Curry dinners every night...Of gosh that would be aweful.


6 posted on 02/16/2007 9:59:40 AM PST by Holicheese (Beerfest could be the greatest movie ever made!)
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To: Sergio; Thrownatbirth

Nope,I don't think the US will sell SSNs to even it's closest allies & India & the US are just getting together.Besides the costs of operating & manning a US SSN for any period of time are a wee bit high for most navies.

This particular contract is for a series of 6 new Diesel electric subs fitted with a AIP modules.The only compettors seem to be the Russians(likely winners) & Germans.The US hasn't built such subs in ages,though it could offer combat management systems,sonars,EW equipment,torpedoes & Fuel cells(already being sold for Spain's new subs).I don't think the Germans wouldn't mind allowing American systems on their subs.


7 posted on 02/16/2007 10:04:33 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: Holicheese

Dude,the stuff served on most diesel/electric subs is very bland & tasteless.Stuff like curry are rarely made.


8 posted on 02/16/2007 10:09:58 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki
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To: snowrip

The European elite believe in appeasement because they expect the UNITED STATES to save their sorry, lazy, degenerate asses.


9 posted on 02/16/2007 10:10:15 AM PST by Levante
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To: sukhoi-30mki

bump


10 posted on 02/16/2007 10:28:09 AM PST by Centurion2000 (If you're not being shot at, it's not a high stress job.)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Makes sense to me. Interesting that the Swedes, with their Sterling AIP systems are not in the running. Must not have the necessary stealth or combat systems to fill the Indian Navy requirements.


11 posted on 02/16/2007 10:51:13 AM PST by Sergio (If a tree fell on a mime in the forest, would he make a sound?)
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To: Sergio

Well Sweden doesn't have the kind of pulling power other arms exporters have.The Swedish sub manufacturer,Kockums is now a fully owned subsidiary of Germany's HDW.


12 posted on 02/16/2007 10:56:47 AM PST by sukhoi-30mki (an)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

Hence the Germans being in the running. Thanks for the clarification and information.

I always look forward to your posts. You always have excellent information that keeps the military junkie in me thinking and up to date.


13 posted on 02/16/2007 11:12:15 AM PST by Sergio (If a tree fell on a mime in the forest, would he make a sound?)
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To: sukhoi-30mki
India should use that money/funds in sewage treatment...
Most places in India has NONE.. Same with China..
14 posted on 02/16/2007 11:29:00 AM PST by hosepipe (CAUTION: This propaganda is laced with hyperbole....)
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To: sukhoi-30mki

One more nation for France to surrender to.


15 posted on 02/16/2007 11:37:32 AM PST by Buck W. (If you push something hard enough, it will fall over.)
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To: Levante
The European elite believe in appeasement because they expect the UNITED STATES to save their sorry, lazy, degenerate asses.

Ah, c'mon, if the USA's relation with Saudi Arabia isn't a prime example of appeasement, I don't know what.

Ah, you financed 9-11? No, worries, we need your oil, we're gonna go after Saddam instead....
16 posted on 02/16/2007 2:49:38 PM PST by wolf78
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To: sukhoi-30mki
The only compettors seem to be the Russians(likely winners) & Germans.The US hasn't built such subs in ages.

Yup. The Americans do not have this technology since they rely exclusively on their nuclear powered subs. This might have been a fundamental fault since the D/E-tech developed the past few years in a breathtaking manner. As you probably know it is impossible to make nuclear subs absolutely quiet due to the necessity to cool the reactor. This is different with a modern D/E-sub that is practically undedectable. Since the endurance to dive with a D/E-AIP eqipped sub is 2 weeks and more the former tactical handicap through the need to snorkel is not that impressive anymore.

Besides - The American incompetence to build such subs already is a political problem. The early Bush administration wished to deliver HDW-subs to Taiwan but the German gouvernment refused, because they didn't want to mess around with the Chicoms. Therefore it is not possible for America to give Taiwan the technical possibility to defend itself against China. As far as I know America does not sell nuclear technology to other nations execept of the UK. This contains the nuclear propulsion of subs to my knowlege (is this true?). All other European producers also refused to deliver or to give licences to build D/E-boats in other places (like in Israel). That means that the US have to defend Taiwan by themselves since the Taiwanese are not able to get suitable technology.

If I would be you Indians I would buy the original AIP instead of a bad Russian copy.---- Oh yeah ---- I know --- the price.

Nevertheless - German subs might be not cheap but you get real "bang" for the buck.

;)

17 posted on 02/16/2007 5:38:27 PM PST by Atlantic Bridge (De omnibus dubitandum!)
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To: hosepipe

Umm & you are sure that all that money will be spent on such infrastructure-India spends very little of it's GDP on defence unlike many of its neighbours.


18 posted on 02/16/2007 8:16:53 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki (an)
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To: Holicheese
I worked for an Indian (East Indian) officer in an operations complex. Sealed building, no windows you could open. When guys work together you expect a little gas.

Once, he had family visiting from the old country. A relative prepared special family dishes. The next morning at work he suddenly opened up with a full force dirty bomb attack. I left and came back an hour and a half later. I turned around and left for another hour.

I couldn't stay in there. My eyes were watering!

Maybe the whole caste system thing started based on the fortitude of the families' gastrointestinal tract.
19 posted on 02/16/2007 8:26:28 PM PST by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Atlantic Bridge

I really don't know if you can call fuel cells solely German-Many nations incl. Russia & the US have been working on them for a while now,though the German system is established now as the best.

Russian subs since the Kilo class have been actually good as far as quieting & weaponry goes & you can expect the Amur to be no worse.I would have actually preferred if India opted to buy the Type-214 for it's submarine line,instead of the French Scorpene & then gone for the Russian design-just like it did in the 80s.The Scorpene was probably selected to get French help on Nuclear technology & stand-off weaponry,which Germany probably couldn't match.This new Amur class could possibly be modified to vertically launch the Brahmos or Klub cruise missiles-which would be a first for any SSK.


20 posted on 02/16/2007 8:26:50 PM PST by sukhoi-30mki (an)
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